Scottie Pippen's modern day equivelent?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Odom is nowhere near as tough and nasty as Pippen. I don't see any similarities.

Pippen was certainly not tough and nasty. Odom thrives on contact more than Pippen ever did.

his will to win almost equalled Jordan's

Yeah...ok.

[ProfessorMurder]

Wasn't really dissing Fila per se, just saw that the only way dude could think prime hill was better than prime Pippen was that he was an 8 year old in Detroit when Hill was prime is all.

I LOVED the high top FX-100's when I was little:


but I knew better than those $85 Grant Hills:

Oh I know, but I love them getting mentioned at random times. Every time I see a mention I just think about them ruining Hill's career.

I never had a pair back then... I looked on ebay recently, but don't want to pay over 100 for a pair. I would definitely have rocked them though.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yeah, Lebron and Iggy or Wallace are similar but there is no replica of Pippen like there is with some other legends. There may never be another Pippen. He was that unique.

That's true. First of all, he was definitely the greatest defensive small forward I've ever seen, but he was also averaging nearly 9 rebounds at one point, scoring over 20 ppg on around 50% shooting and averaging 7 assists in the triangle offense! He played small forward, but he handled the ball and ran the offense like a point guard, he'd guard point guards as well at times, but he'd guard power forwards too.

Good post. The only thing I disagree with is the 3 point shooting comment. Pippen from 94' onward was similar to Lebron in 3 point shooting. From 1994-2002 Pippen was at 32-37%; Lebron has been at 32-36% since 2004. Pippen was aided by a shorter 3 point line when he shot 37% but he shot 34% without it so it wasn't that big of an aid to him.

Yeah, I was thinking Lebron was better at first due to volume, but their percentages are similar and because Lebron is so streaky maybe it's a bit more fair to say he was a better volume 3 point shooter, but he wasn't more consistent, IMO.And what I mean by that is Lebron will have a lot of games with 5, 6 threes, but other nights he can go 1 for 6 pretty frequently.

Pippen's rebounding was better, but not much better than Lebron's on its face but it was much better when you factor in the era. He was pulling down 9 boards a game when the other top SF's were averaging only 5-6. Keep in mind Pippen sometimes played the guard position so that deflated his rebounding numbers slightly too. Lebron is at 7 rpg, which is on par with other top SF's and even a SF like Deng.

Good point

[allball]

FOH, what is this bias against Pip?
You clearly couldn't beleive this.
Were you a child in the D in 1995, wearing those Fila's?

by that I meant Grant came into the league as a better player than Pippen did and had more offensive versatility. his defense was nearly on par with Pip's and would have only gotten better.

Grant had a better jumpshot, a better drive and finish game and was at least an equal passer. his man on man defense was as good except he didn't jump the passing lanes as well as Pip but Pip also played with a much better defensive team and coach.

[OldSchoolBBall]

by that I meant Grant came into the league as a better player than Pippen did and had more offensive versatility. his defense was nearly on par with Pip's and would have only gotten better.

Grant had a better jumpshot, a better drive and finish game and was at least an equal passer. his man on man defense was as good except he didn't jump the passing lanes as well as Pip but Pip also played with a much better defensive team and coach.

I would take peak Hill over peak Pippen (he was a more dominant offensive player - much more than the numbers let on to anyone who watched him), but let's not get crazy by saying that Hill's man to man defense was "as good" as Pippen's. That's crazy talk.

[bdreason]

Nobody plays defense anymore.

[allball]

Pippen was certainly not tough and nasty. Odom thrives on contact more than Pippen ever did.





Yeah...ok.

dude Pippen in the early 90's was ferocious. this came after the years of playing against the Bad Boys. from 91 on Pip became a lot tougher and his nastiness against the Knicks is undeniable.

as for contact there is none compared to the early 90's

[Roundball_Rock]

First of all, he was definitely the greatest defensive small forward I've ever seen, but he was also averaging nearly 9 rebounds at one point, scoring over 20 ppg on around 50% shooting and averaging 7 assists in the triangle offense! He played small forward, but he handled the ball and ran the offense like a point guard, he'd guard point guards as well at times, but he'd guard power forwards too.

As far as GOAT defensive SF it would either have to be him or Havelick.

Yup, he could guard PF's. Remember him shutting down Barkley in 95'? I was going to post a thread on that since there is video of it (Pippen had 35/9/6/4/2 in that game WHILE shutting down the GOAT offensive PF!) but this Pippen thread popped up so I'll defer that.

Pippen actually did play PG full-time for 1 1/2 seasons in Portland. Needless to say, Portland's performance was dramatically better with Pippen at the point. It wasn't his 11/6/6--this was 36 and 37 year old Pippen. It was his leadership and ability to make his teammates better that was causing such an impact. When he played in 02' and 03' their winning percentage was 4th and 5th in the league; when he was hurt they slipped to 18th and 19th. Unfortunately, the other top teams were all in the West and Pippen was hurt for the 03' playoffs yet he still came back to spur Portland to a key victory in the fourth quarter of one game--even though he was riding a bike for most of it!

Great point on his versatility. He could do anything on the court and this gave added value to his teams that often is overlooked. He was a rare unselfish superstar who sacrificed his stats to help his teammates. When players struggle many great players cut them off but Pippen's practice was to work even harder to get them a good shot to keep their confidence up. Pippen was always the guy players turned to when they needed encouragement. Pippen, according to Phil Jackson, was always the most well-liked player by Bulls' players. There is no stat to measure this but obviously a player who keeps everyone involved, morale high is going to have additional impact on a team that goes beyond his raw stats.

Yeah, I was thinking Lebron was better at first due to volume, but their percentages are similar and because Lebron is so streaky maybe it's a bit more fair to say he was a better volume 3 point shooter, but he wasn't more consistent, IM

Their volume is actually similar, at least for 95'-99' Pippen. He took between 4-5.2 three's per game in those seasons. Lebron has been in that range since his rookie year. Pippen was a streaky shooter too. On 3's they are basically identical at this point, although Lebron probably will improve to a 40% shooter later in his career.

by that I meant Grant came into the league as a better player than Pippen did and had more offensive versatility. his defense was nearly on par with Pip's and would have only gotten better.

What relevance does him coming into the league as better than Pippen have? Pippen, like Stockton and Drexler to name a few greats, was not a great player as a rookie. OJ Mayo as a rookie was better than Drexler. Does that mean Mayo will be better than Drexler?

Hill was nowhere near Pippen on defense.

Grant had a better jumpshot, a better drive and finish game and was at least an equal passer.

All that is true (except the jumpshot statement has to be qualified by saying Pippen had more range--he was a much better 3 point shooter). The thing is his advantages where he was better were not huge while Pippen's advantage on defense was.

I would take peak Hill over peak Pippen

Of course you would. You would take peak Paul Pierce, who was "way more dominant" according to you than Pip , over Pippen. The question for you is Caron Butler versus Pippen, not Hill or Pierce.

[allball]

I would take peak Hill over peak Pippen (he was a more dominant offensive player - much more than the numbers let on to anyone who watched him), but let's not get crazy by saying that Hill's man to man defense was "as good" as Pippen's. That's crazy talk.

by man to man I mean staying in front of the man he's guarding. Pip however was better at fronting, jumping passing lanes and blocking from behind because if his length.

[BarberSchool]

Pippen was certainly not tough and nasty. Odom thrives on contact more than Pippen ever did.





Yeah...ok.

[CLTHornets4eva]

Gerald Wallace with a touch of Granger.

[Joshumitsu]

I heard a few rumblings about Batum... But I haven't seen him enough, and I flat out don't believe it anyway. I was really going to watch him this year, but he got hurt.

Jordan has said Batum reminded him of a younger Pippen.

And Batum does pattern his game after Pippen (who happens to be his favorite player). You can youtube highlights and see that their 3-pt release, running abilities, athleticism, etc happen to be very similar.

As for the passing and scoring, Batum definately isn't Pippen. Although Batum did improve his handling over the summer and did well for the French National Team. Also, when he returned from his injury, he was scoring at a high clip with the limited minutes he got.

And if you want to compare Sophmore years, statistically, they aren't very much different.

I encourage you to watch a few more Blazer games this year, especially now that he might be starting back at SF.

[DuMa]

Tayshaun Prince

[AtomSmasher]

Iggy is a poor man's version of Scottie - Scottie was better in literally every aspect of basketball. They are world's apart offensively.

[Desperado]

Jordan without Pippen was nothing but a bald-headed Dominique Wilkins.