Jordans, Kobes and Lebrons averages in "Win or go home/Must win" games:

[pauk]

Why is it better to look at FG% over TS% when looking at a player's offensive impact on the game?

Because it favors those who shoot high FT% percentage... TS% takes into account FT%... so if a guy is shooting horribly during a game (Field Goals) his ultra high FT% will boost that TS% up.... hence its a indoctrinated way to hide how bad the player actually shot (FG%)....


i.e. hypothetically speaking a 30% FG guy who shoots 100% FT can end up having the same TS% as a guy who shoots 60% FG but shoots 50% FT or something like that.... but TS% says that the 30% FG guy is as efficient as somebody as Shaq simply because of his FT%...

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Because it favors those who shoot high FT% percentage... TS% takes into account FT%... so if a guy is shooting horribly during a game (Field Goals) his ultra high FT% will boost that TS% up.... hence its a indoctrinated way to hide how bad the player actually shot (FG%)....


i.e. hypothetically speaking a 30% FG guy who shoots 100% FT can end up having the same TS% as a guy who shoots 60% FG but shoots 50% FT or something like that.... but TS% says that the 30% FG guy is as efficient as somebody as Shaq simply because of his FT%...

A player shooting 3/10 from the and 10/10 from the line produced the same exact amount of points as a player shooting 8/10 from the field and 0/10 from the line. TS% recognizes that. FG% does not. Why is that a bad thing? The scoreboard doesn't discriminate field goals from free throws.

[28renyoy]

A player shooting 3/10 from the and 10/10 from the line produced the same exact amount of points as a player shooting 8/10 from the field and 0/10 from the line. TS% recognizes that. FG% does not. Why is that a bad thing? The scoreboard doesn't discriminate field goals from free throws.

Pauk likes to use FG% because LeBron is an average free throw shooter and he doesn't take many 3's, aka his FG% is inflated in comparison with someone like Durant who shoots 50% from the field while taking 5+ 3's per game

If LeBron had a career TS% like Durant he would preach it as the end all be all stat, as Durant is the most efficient playoff and regular season scorer(25+ ppg) in history per TS%

[RaininTwos]

Nope, i just think that FG and FT should be separated percentages...

That's the way they HAVE ALWAYS been, stop responding to these clowns. I know you love bron and are biased but you did a good job of being impartial for the most(didnt read everything) in this thread.

[Hands of Iron]

Shaq in Must-Win Games

1998-03 (7 games): 33 ppg, 13 rpg, 3 apg, 59% TS
1994-05 (13 games): 28 ppg, 11 rpg, 3 apg, 59% TS

He's better than all of them.

If you include anything outside of 2005, you're a idiot.

[lilgodfather1]

Shaq in Must-Win Games

1998-03 (7 games): 33 ppg, 13 rpg, 3 apg, 59% TS
1994-05 (13 games): 28 ppg, 11 rpg, 3 apg, 59% TS

He's better than all of them.

If you include anything outside of 2005, you're a idiot.

Then we should take away all of Kobe's from his rookie year until his 5th year, and then again from his 14th season and on.

[Hands of Iron]

Shaq in Must-Win Games

1998-03 (7 games): 33 ppg, 13 rpg, 3 apg, 59% TS
1994-05 (13 games): 28 ppg, 11 rpg, 3 apg, 59% TS

He's better than all of them.

If you include anything outside of 2005, you're a idiot.

A TS% backfire? Isn't Kobe's like 51% from 2000-12 and in non-blowouts? You just can't keep the most efficient scorer in the game down, can you?

'98 WCF, Game 4: 38 pts, 7 reb, 1 ast, 58.3% FG, 59.5% TS
'99 WCSF, Game 4: 36 pts, 14 reb, 0 ast, 52.2% FG, 54.3% TS
'00 WCQF, Game 5: 32 pts, 18 reb, 4 ast, 62.5% FG, 59.4% TS
'00 WCF, Game 7: 18 pts, 9 reb, 5 ast, 55.6% FG, 63.0% TS
'02 WCF, Game 6: 41 pts, 17 reb, 1 ast, 56.0% FG, 63.1% TS
'02 WCF, Game 7: 35 pts, 13 reb, 2 ast, 48.0% FG, 55.4% TS
'03 WCSF, Game 6: 31 pts, 10 reb, 3 ast, 61.9% FG, 61.0% TS

[Hands of Iron]

Then we should take away all of Kobe's from his rookie year until his 5th year, and then again from his 14th season and on.

Go ahead? What the hell does non-HOF caliber versions of HOF players tell you about how HOF players performed in must-win games? Completely asinine. I wouldn't include anything for Bird after 1988 either. Kobe may not even be on the hook until 2000-01. WTF did you do when you were ELITE and responsible? That's all that matters.

[LBJFTW]

Thats kindof a narrowminded way to look at it... Lebron had to make magic, pull a rabbit out of his rectum and have one of the greatest playoff series and games in playoffs history to get to his first Finals as a 21 year old with a team that was probably the worst team in NBA history to be in a Finals.... where as Jordan didnt get to a Finals until he was 28 years old due to finally having a great supporting cast...

Its only that 2011 Finals appearance you can attack from Lebron as he had a good supporting cast and he indeed individually underperformed there... there is a reason for that to (he played a new role, had new teammates, new offense, new chemistry, took extremly few shots and was way to passive/unselfish and so on), but thats no excuse... he underperformed by his standards...

One last thing, Lebron is 27 years old and had 3 Finals appearances, when MJ was 27 year old he had 0 Finals appearances... not trying to devaluate MJ here, its a team game, just making a more fair comparasant, i suggest we wait until Lebrons career is over until you can compare Lebron & MJ... right now its just disrespectful to MJ to compare his accomplishments to Lebron and very unfair to Lebron to compare him to MJ (as he indeed played many more seasons)...

We can wait until his career is over, but I just wanted to add that I've never seen a top 5 player in the league just simply quit on an entire franchise during a playoff game. We're not talking about under performing here..... the guy literally shut down and looked disinterested when playing against Boston in the playoffs.

[Hoopz2332]

update

[SamuraiSWISH]

So

MJ
LeBron
Wade
Kobe
Durant

I think Kobe is more a clutch moment or shot guy and less we need an entire back to the wall, full game clutch performance kind of guy. Just my thoughts.

LeBron is a clutch game guy but more shook in defining moment type play scenarios.

As usual Mike was the best of both worlds. GOAT.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt:

31.1 ppg
26.4 rpg
4.2 apg
.540 FG% (in post-season's that shot about .435 in that same span.)

Multiple games with KNOWN block totals of 10+.

The ONLY THREE 50+ point games by a GOAT in NBA playoff history, with a high of 56 (to go along with 35 rebounds.)

A Must Win Finals game of 45 points, 27 rebounds, and on 20-27 shooting.

A must win 50-35 playoff game against RUSSELL. Another must win playoff game against Russell of 46-34.

A way-past prime 34 and 35 year old Wilt vs a peak Kareem in their two series clinching games in '71 and '72 ...Wilt shot .545 from the floor (18-33)...Kareem shot .383 (23-60.)

Oh, and a prime "scoring" Wilt averaged 36.5 ppg in his 13 must win games.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Because it favors those who shoot high FT% percentage... TS% takes into account FT%... so if a guy is shooting horribly during a game (Field Goals) his ultra high FT% will boost that TS% up.... hence its a indoctrinated way to hide how bad the player actually shot (FG%)....


i.e. hypothetically speaking a 30% FG guy who shoots 100% FT can end up having the same TS% as a guy who shoots 60% FG but shoots 50% FT or something like that.... but TS% says that the 30% FG guy is as efficient as somebody as Shaq simply because of his FT%...

Totally agree

[Mr Feeny]

It's definitely lebron who is the highest scoring elimination game player in history.


Kobe for what it's worth is a 39% elimination game player


Truly pathetic