Pippen or Nash, who is better?

[BIZARRO]

Scottie Pippen's Place in Basketball History

By David Friedman

..."It is interesting and revealing that teammates, opponents and coaches consistently praise Pippen. Phil Jackson, his coach with the six-time champion Chicago Bulls, declares, 'Scottie was our team leader. He was the guy that directed our offense and he was the guy that took on a lot of big challenges defensively...the year that Michael retired, Scottie I think was the most valuable player in the league.' Former teammate and current Bulls coach Bill Cartwright flatly states that Pippen 'was as much a part of winning the championships as MJ. I don't think it would have gotten done without him.'

Last year, Sacramento Kings star Chris Webber declared, 'Pip is the most underrated player in the game.' Around the same time, Portland Trail Blazers' assistant Jim Lynam called Pippen 'an indescribably great player,' adding 'I knew the guy was good, but I had no idea how good.'

Memphis Grizzlies coach Hubie Brown breaks it down scientifically: 'He's 6-8 and he can see over the defense, which is a major advantage for a point guard. He also doesn't rush anything. You don't see Portland running back downcourt and forcing threes. You don't see them trying to get the ball in the paint and wasting so much time that two options of a play are already gone. He has a presence.'

The Oregonian selected the 37-year old Pippen as the midseason MVP of the resurgent 2002-03 Blazers: 'Statistics don't tell the whole story with Pippen, whose ability to guard anyone from Atlanta Hawks power forward Shareef Abdur-Rahim to San Antonio Spurs point guard Tony Parker to Boston Celtics small forward Paul Pierce has given the Blazers incredible versatility.'"

The Chicago Tribune's Sam Smith covered Pippen's entire career with the Bulls. One quote in particular stands out from this column:

"Jordan always felt Pippen was something special," longtime Bulls assistant Tex Winter said. "Michael realized how easy it was to play with him and how he helped make his teammates better. It's often said Jordan needed Pippen and Pippen needed Jordan. I'm not sure Jordan didn't need Pippen more than Pippen needed Jordan."

Yes, good post. Much of it is true.

But the BS parts are highlighted. Cartwright and Smith have a bigger axe to grind with MJ than Paul Bunyan.

And the last line of the Tex Winter quote is ridiculous.

I love Pip as much as, in fact much more than the next guy, but he OFTEN disappeared in crunch time.

[guy]

Just imagine Nash and Jordan on the same team..IMO It would be more unstoppable then Pippen and Jordan, which seems pretty crazy because it is. Overall this is a dumb topic, but I would really like to see what Nash and Jordan could do on a court. It would be an opposing coaches nightmare to try to come up with plays for defensive stops.

Not really. Nash is a great scorer, playmaker, and clutch player. The Bulls don't really need that with Jordan and the triangle offense. Triangle offense didn't really need a great PG, and they're not going to need Nash for big shots, when they have Jordan. Plus I don't think Nash is going to make Jordan an even better scorer, maybe some of the others, but nobody else on those teams was as talented or athletic as Amare or Marion. What does happen though is a huge downgrade in defense.

[ihatetimthomas]

If Nash is playing under Don Nelson, Mike Dantoni, then I take Nash easily. In a fast paced offense, Nash is much more important than Pippen. But in any other offense and any other team, I would take Pippens services. It really depends on what you need for your team. Legitimate pg's are hard to come by in this league. It wouldnt be insane for one to pick Nash over Pip. But for me personally, I love Pip and I think he would fit any system, even a run and gun system. Give me Pip. He can do it all and he can handle the rock. He was a defensive nightmare

[97 bulls]

first you cant really compare the two offensivly cuz of the totally different offenses the two played in. the uptempo offense nash played in is indicative of his stats. pip played in a structured offense which is going to lower his offensive output. if pip played a more uptempo offense his stats would be 23-25 ppg, 7-9 rbds, 7-8 asst. cuz of the more shot oppotunuties a fast pace offense provides. and obviously, in a structured offense, nashs offensive output would decline.

defensively its no contest. no matter what kind of system you play in defense is defense. and pip was great at it and nash isnt.

some people disrespect pip so much its rediculous. but those people obviously dont play, basketball. they only watch "tapes" (of one player only). and their opinions on topics like these should be taken with "a grain of salt".

[Loki]

they only watch "tapes" (of one player only). and their opinions on topics like these should be taken with "a grain of salt".

Yeah, my a$$. "So much disrespect," he says. Wanna know what disrespect is? A poster, who shall remain nameless, who actually thinks Pippen was as good as Bird.

In short: gtfo.

[RonySeikalyFTW]

Scottie Pippen is one of the most polarizing players in the history of the NBA. He's either the most overrated or underrated player ever, depending upon who you ask. I happen to find him very underrated.

Ask MJ what kind of player Pippen was. Ask MJ if he would've traded Pip for any other player in the league. You can say that MJ made Pip relevant in the discussion of great players, that MJ made Scottie Pippen a star. And that's true to a degree because Pip wouldn't have won 6 rings without MJ. But I doubt MJ would've won 6 rings without Pip. Fact is, Scottie was able to mold his game to be the perfect compliment to Michael. That cannot be overlooked. People think Pippen just fit as the perfect Jordan teammate like a piece to a puzzle, but that's not the case. Pippen had to adjust and sacrifice parts of his game to make himself the perfect piece.

Pippen had his weaknesses offensively. He wasn't your prototypical scoring small forward as he was a point guard trapped in a 3's body. He suffered horrible shooting and scoring droughts. He didn't really have a post game. But what he did have was unparralled. For my money, there was no greater perimiter defender in NBA history than Scottie Pippen. For my money, there was no greater point-forward in NBA history than Scottie Pippen.

MJ certainly helped Pip. But who knows how Jordan's legacy would be viewed if he didn't have Scottie Pippen.

[iamgine]

Yes, good post. Much of it is true.

But the BS parts are highlighted. Cartwright have a bigger axe to grind with MJ than Paul Bunyan.

This is exactly why what Cartwright said is true.

And the last line of the Tex Winter quote is ridiculous.

You should ask him what he mean then, cause it's Tex Winter. This is the guy who re-invented the triangle offense and interacted with MJ and Pippen daily.

[imdaman99]

Pippen could do it all. He is probably one of the only players ever who could have the potential to have a quintuplet double. lol yeah I know it would never happen but he could score 10, grab 10 rebs, 10 assists, 10 blocks, 10 steals. Maybe Olajuwon too or D Robinson. But Pippen with his wiry frame could do that. And this is coming from a Knicks/Kobe fan. I hate the guy basically, but I recognize him as a great player.

Pippens jockstrap > Nash

[Loki]

This is exactly why what Cartwright said is true.



You should ask him what he mean then, cause it's Tex Winter. This is the guy who re-invented the triangle offense and interacted with MJ and Pippen daily.

Pippen was not as important to those championship teams as Jordan. Period. Anyone who denies this, or tries to equivocate or be cute in some way, is deluding themselves.

You have a better case saying that Shaq and Kobe were equally important than that Pippen and Jordan were equally important.

[iamgine]

now i see what 97 bulls mean

[Loki]

now i see what 97 bulls mean

You see what 97 Bulls means? 97 Bulls has his head so far up his a$$ that he has stated that Pippen was as good and valuable as Bird. I don't need to say anything more.

And what do you see? That people refuse to concede that Pippen was as valuable and important as Jordan? News flash: he wasn't. He was very valuable, but not as valuable as Jordan. Stating a truth isn't irrational; those stating otherwise are being irrational, just as you are.

I mean, really -- anyone who asserts that Pippen was "just as important to those championship teams" as Jordan needs to have their head examined. That goes for Cartwright, Winter, 97 Bulls, or iamgine.

[iamgine]

97 bulls might be wrong about a lot of things, but he's spot on about Loki.

[Loki]

97 bulls might be wrong about a lot of things, but he's spot on about Loki.

Yeah, keep telling yourself that. I'm sure it makes you feel like you didn't just spout nonsense in this topic.

[imdaman99]

Pippen was extremely valuable to the Bulls winning championships. Remember he got them started, shutting down Magic in the 91 finals. Who knows, maybe the Lakers win that finals with Magic dominating and the Bulls never become the dynasty we know them as. What I'm saying is, of course MJ was more valuable than Scottie. But I'm not sure if the Bulls would have ever won without Scottie.

Before everyone jumps on me, relax. Its likely they would have still won. But 6 titles I doubt. We will never know, so its all good

[Loki]

Pippen was extremely valuable to the Bulls winning championships. Remember he got them started, shutting down Magic in the 91 finals.

He actually only guarded Magic for about half the series (Jordan guarded him the other 50%+ of the time, including all of game 1, half of game 3, 2/3 of game 4, and all of game 5). And neither of them shut down Magic regardless.

Who knows, maybe the Lakers win that finals with Magic dominating and the Bulls never become the dynasty we know them as. What I'm saying is, of course MJ was more valuable than Scottie. But I'm not sure if the Bulls would have ever won without Scottie.

Yeah, without Pippen and with no replacement at all (that is, with just Jordan/Grant/Paxson) they likely don't win. With an all-star level replacement, they still win. Maybe not 6, but at least a few. With an all-star level big man, especially an all-time defender like Mutombo, they win at least 5 imo.