The Jordan Fadeaway.

[KenneBell]

Kobe's hardly been "struggling" with his fadeaway especially this year.

He's shooting 52.4% from 10-15 feet and 49% from 3-9 feet. Both of those areas are where he uses that move most.

Why does everyone overexaggerate on this forum? It's ridiculous.

[jstern]

Thabo Sefolosha, SG 2 blocks
James Harden, G 0 blocks

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310227025

It was sef disrupting his fadeaways no harden.

Now you like pick and choose stats, and choosing blocks as proof. Did you even watch the game? Hayden didn't block Kobe because he was smacking the ball out of his hands before Kobe could even put the shot up.

It was like these fanboys compare him to Jordan.

[Heilige]

And as someone who is obsessed with copying move, I completely understand the flaw with Kobe. In a subtle way it becomes less about reflexes when doing it, and more about going over a pre planned move. Jordan with the fadeaway was more successful in pulling it off against great defense because with him it was more about reflex, while with Kobe, it's subtlety more forced and pre determine how he plans on doing it.

I don't understand what you mean by that. If you practice a move enough times over and over it becomes an ingrained habit and it is about reflex like you mentioned with Jordan. Why wouldn't it be the same for Kobe considering how hard he practices the move through tons of repetition?

[Showtime]

Thabo Sefolosha, SG 2 blocks
James Harden, G 0 blocks

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=310227025

It was sef disrupting his fadeaways no harden.

Somebody didn't watch the game, or doesn't know the difference between a strip and a block.

[Knoe Itawl]

Like I said impressive no doubt what he accomplished for his age (even if his mileage was more of a player around 37ish). But can't stand fanboys acting like he was some worldbeater out there.

No one act like he was the best player in the league, but before he got injured he was one of only three players in the NBA averageing 25, 5 and 5. Guess who the other two were? Kobe and TMac. Further, he came back at 39/40 as the FRANCHISE PLAYER on the team, with all that entails. Especially considering the Wizards were a bottom feeding team and thus he was the center of attention for other teams' defenses. Imagine if he had come back to a team where he didn't have to do all that? Like say if he was, I dunno, on the Lakers playing with Shaq? Or on San Antonio? Or in Minny?

But the bottom line really is that all of the Kobe Klown nonsense about it being some super league from 2000 on is garbage. If it was, there is no way a 39, 40 year old with a bum knee should have even been able to do that. And if we make the logical assumption that a 24-33 year old Jordan would be MUCH better than that version, and given that the NBA changed the rules to make it EASIER for perimeter players, a prime Jordan playing today would be just as good or better. Unless you're an idiot Bryant fanboy troll of course.

[KenneBell]

I don't understand what you mean by that. If you practice a move enough times over and over it becomes an ingrained habit and it is about reflex like you mentioned with Jordan. Why wouldn't it be the same for Kobe considering how hard he practices the move through tons of repetition?

He doesn't know what he's talking about. By now that move is all muscle memory for Kobe. I've seen him do it in those summer league games when he was 17 and he's still using them now.

Let's not act like Kobe hasn't busted Harden and Selfelosha's ass before in the post and he'll probably do it again.

[IGOTGAME]

25+ ppg on 43% FG (league average was 43.5% FG) at age 39 until he hurt his knee and sat out a month in 2002. 23+ ppg on 46+% FG in the final 30 games of the 2003 season after turning age 40 (league average was ~43% FG). I look at these two periods because they were the only times he wasn't injured; his play improved over the course of the 2003 season as he worked himself back into game shape.

His Tee-Ehs percentage was as low as it was because he wasn't getting to the line - you can bet that if 39/40 year old MJ played in the post-2005 NBA, he'd be getting more FT's like everyone else and his Tee-Ehs percentage would be in the 51-52% range. Still not great, but not abysmal either.

Regardless, he was indeed raining fadeaways on very athletic players at that age. FACT. The athleticism of defenders never had an effect on Jordan at any age. HIS OWN declining athleticism had an effect, but not the athleticism of any particular defender.

I remember Jordan getting some of his fade-aways blocked...so the athleticism did effect him as he aged.

[ukplayer4]

Yeah sure. And I'm sure being limited how a player can defend a player one on one in this era also makes it harder on Kobe.

But let say what you say is true, shouldn't it be relative? If the nutrition is so much superior than the 90s then that would benefit Kobe. So since it benefits Kobe also shouldn't Kobe be able to easily get a fadeaway off of a shorter player who has been in the league for 1 and a half season?

Edit: Also remember, that your argument is the same argument that Kobe fanboys used in 2005, 2 years after Jordan retired as a 40 year old. I say 2005, because as the years passes the time becomes more distant, and the fact that they use that excuse that makes no sense becomes less dependable. But a fanboy saying it now is really the same as a fanboy saying it then, because it's the same ignorant logic, only that it becomes harder to show how ignorant it is as time passes by. And you're probably too young to know that Kobe came in the league in 96.

[IGOTGAME]

Yeah sure. And I'm sure being limited how a player can defend a player one on one in this era also makes it harder on Kobe.

But let say what you say is true, shouldn't it be relative? If the nutrition is so much superior than the 90s then that would benefit Kobe. So since it benefits Kobe also shouldn't Kobe be able to easily get a fadeaway off of a shorter player who has been in the league for 1 and a half season?

Edit: Also remember, that your argument is the same argument that Kobe fanboys used in 2005, 2 years after Jordan retired as a 40 year old. I say 2005, because as the years passes the time becomes more distant, and the fact that they use that excuse that makes no sense becomes less dependable. But a fanboy saying it now is really the same as a fanboy saying it then, because it's the same ignorant logic, only that it becomes harder to show how ignorant it is as time passes by. And you're probably too young to know that Kobe came in the league in 96.

why are you comparing the athletism of Jordan to Kobe when they are incomparable?

[KenneBell]

Like I said, this argument is pretty flawed.

[jstern]

I don't understand what you mean by that. If you practice a move enough times over and over it becomes an ingrained habit and it is about reflex like you mentioned with Jordan. Why wouldn't it be the same for Kobe considering how hard he practices the move through tons of repetition?

How can you not understand what I said? Perhaps it's something you can't relate to, have you played much basketball?

We're not talking about being able to perform a move, but rather how the players reacts to the defense. There's dozens of different possibilities, and just knowing the footwork is not going to be enough. It's a lot more about reflexes, being able to react to the defense. The Jordan fadeaway came natural to Jordan, Jordan developed that style, that game, Kobe copied it, and while I consider him to be the best in the world at it right now, it's not = to Jordan's, because for Jordan it was more spontaneous, while with Kobe it's more preplanned.

Look at it this way, with Jordan he doesn't know which way he's going to do it, left or right, straight up, or fading way back until he does it, because to him is more spontaneous. But with Kobe, in a subtle way he has already predetermined which way he wants to go which would cause him to make more mistakes than if he just would have been able to react to the defense.

It's all much more complicated than can be explain, that's why I used the word subtle so much.

[Heilige]

How can you not understand what I said? Perhaps it's something you can't relate to, have you played much basketball?

We're not talking about being able to perform a move, but rather how the players reacts to the defense. There's dozens of different possibilities, and just knowing the footwork is not going to be enough. It's a lot more about reflexes, being able to react to the defense. The Jordan fadeaway came natural to Jordan, Jordan developed that style, that game, Kobe copied it, and while I consider him to be the best in the world at it right now, it's not = to Jordan's, because for Jordan it was more spontaneous, while with Kobe it's more preplanned.

Look at it this way, with Jordan he doesn't know which way he's going to do it, left or right, straight up, or fading way back until he does it, because to him is more spontaneous. But with Kobe, in a subtle way he has already predetermined which way he wants to go which would cause him to make more mistakes than if he just would have been able to react to the defense.

It's all much more complicated than can be explain, that's why I used the word subtle so much.

If you work on something hard enough it will become natural for someone. With the work Kobe put in the fadeaway became natural for him.

[Hulk Hogan]

Now you like pick and choose stats, and choosing blocks as proof. Did you even watch the game? Hayden didn't block Kobe because he was smacking the ball out of his hands before Kobe could even put the shot up.

It was like these fanboys compare him to Jordan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWo8QRUVWI#t=2m19s

So is that why Kobe just owned harden in the post with a fade-away there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWo8QRUVWI#t=3m6s

and there?

[STATUTORY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWo8QRUVWI#t=2m19s

So is that why Kobe just owned harden in the post with a fade-away there?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWo8QRUVWI#t=3m7s

and there?

they don't count. kobe's not spontaneous enough

[jstern]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpWo8QRUVWI#t=2m19s

So is that why Kobe just owned harden in the post with a fade-away there?

It's like arguing with a 10 year old again

Showing a clip of Kobe hitting a fadeaway against Harden, doesn't suddenly erase the fact that he struggled against him last Sunday.