Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
Kevin Durant has 4 seasons with a higher Ortg than Kobe's BEST season......and he's played less than half as many seasons. He's also led the league in scoring 4 times to Kobe's 2. Durant has 6 seasons with a higher TS% than Kobe's best season.
Kevin Durant has done all of these things in less than half of Kobe's career.
oh also, KD has two season with a higher PER than Kobe's best season.
KD has led the league in win shares 1 time.....Kobe has done that 0 times.
KD has 3 seasons with a higher ws/48 than Kobe's BEST season.
oh also, KD has two season with a higher PER than Kobe's best season.
KD has led the league in win shares 1 time.....Kobe has done that 0 times.
KD has 3 seasons with a higher ws/48 than Kobe's BEST season.
There really is no argument for Kobe as a better offensive weapon than Durant.
Switch their team situations for the first 8 years of their careers and nobody would even be comparing Kobe to Durant.
I stay shutting down these threads. Nobody wants to play with me
Kobe's BEST season in terms of Win Shares is the 100th highest winshare total of all time. That was 05-06....and Chauncey Billups had more WS that year. Even if we sort it for just players who had a >25% USG% Kobe's best season is 51st all time.
Sorting for >25% usg (high usage players) and 30+mpg, Kobe's most efficient season (By ts%) isn't even top 100.....it's 175th
The one area where Kobe IS historically significant in is usage%. 3 of the 20 highest usage seasons on record belong to Kobe.
more statistical comparisons income!
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Thread: How Overrated is Kobe?
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08-25-2015, 10:26 AM #1The Wizard
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How Overrated is Kobe?
Last edited by ralph_i_el; 08-25-2015 at 10:34 AM.
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08-25-2015, 10:31 AM #2Laker Nation
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
yeah, Kobe's place in history is the result of his luck with his stacked teams.
Based purely on his individual ability to play ball, his rank is somewhere in the 20s AT BEST.
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08-25-2015, 10:38 AM #3Banned
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Rent free Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
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08-25-2015, 10:41 AM #4Goat Loading
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
3 point shooting
Jordan - .327 (1778 attempts)
Kobe - .334 (5079 attempts)
Free throw shooting
Jordan - .835
Kobe - .837
Adjusted 2PT%
Jordan - .520 (league average at .482)
Kobe - .486 (league average at .455)
Kobe was 3.1% above league average
Jordan was 3.8% above league average
Jordan - 1.354 PPS (league average at 1.194 PPS)
Kobe - 1.300 PPS (league average at 1.143 PPS)
Jordan shot 13.41% above league average (or .160 PPS higher)
Kobe shot 13.76%% above league average (or .157 PPS higher)
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08-25-2015, 10:43 AM #5WIND DEFENDER
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Kobe is only 175th among free renters. Originally Posted by 20Four
KD has three seasons with lower rent than Kobes lowest rent.
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08-25-2015, 10:45 AM #6Bran Fam Member
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
More like how overrated the advanced stats are...especially when the game isn't played the same way it was back when Kobe was at his athletic peak in the early 2000s....
KD and Lebron benefit greatly from the era of no hand-checking as far as individual numbers go, yet still they can't accomplish what Kobe did.
Come back when one of them leads the most dominant Championship team of all-time in WS/48, or when one of them sweeps through their conference with no HCA in 2 out of 3 series while averaging 32/7/6, or when one of them 3-peats
or when one of them has a positive record in the Finals
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08-25-2015, 10:45 AM #7The Wizard
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
If you shoot 3's at 33.4% efficiency that only adjusts to 50.1 TS% on 3's. Originally Posted by West-Side
That's not good
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08-25-2015, 10:48 AM #8The Wizard
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Can't accomplish what Shaq did you mean. Originally Posted by ImKobe
More like how overrated the advanced stats are...especially when the game isn't played the same way it was back when Kobe was at his athletic peak in the early 2000s....
KD and Lebron benefit greatly from the era of no hand-checking as far as individual numbers go, yet still they can't accomplish what Kobe did.
Come back when one of them leads the most dominant Championship team of all-time in WS/48, or when one of them sweeps through their conference with no HCA in 2 out of 3 series while averaging 32/7/6, or when one of them 3-peats or when one of them has a positive record in the Finals
Switch Kobe and Durant's teammate situations and Durant is the one with rings early in his career.
Kobe is the luckiest player of all time
-Played entire career for marquee franchise
-Played from day 1 with a GOAT candidate in his prime
-Never had a major injury before/during his prime
Kobe=Luck+Longevity. I'd take 20-25 guys over him in terms of actual impact.
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08-25-2015, 10:49 AM #9Goat Loading
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
His points per shot was higher than Jordan's compared to league average. Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
Context matters in these comparisons since Jordan did not play during the same time frame as Kobe did.
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08-25-2015, 10:50 AM #10Goat Loading
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Shaquille hasn't won a damn thing without Kobe Bryant. He wasn't even the best player in his only other title run, Wade was. While Kobe led his team to 3 straight final appearances, winning two titles just 3 years after the two players went their separate way. Originally Posted by ralph_i_el
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08-25-2015, 10:50 AM #11Seething...
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Still using those numbers you tweeked to serve your Kobe worshipping purposes huh? Nice. I'll let you deceive whoever falls for this stuff. Originally Posted by West-Side
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08-25-2015, 10:52 AM #12The Wizard
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Talk bad about advanced stats all you want, but think about this:
If you look at these stats, they pretty much conform to how we rank all time great players. All of the guys we consider "all time greats" or "top-10" or even "top-20" all come up near the top of win shares.....EXCEPT KOBE.
Kobe has rings (from stacked teams and however they beat the 2002 kings)
Kobe has career totals (from playing more seasons than almost any all-time great candidate)
That's it. His statistical and eye-test impact just don't measure up
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08-25-2015, 10:52 AM #13Bran Fam Member
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Also need to include the fact that there used to be a shorter 3pt line in the 90s, when Jordan had decent 3pt%... Originally Posted by West-Side
You remove the seasons there was a shorter line (94-95 - 96-97) and MJ shot 343/1189 (28,8%) from the same distance Kobe shot 33% whie having attempted over 4x as many of them...
Jordan's 3pt% dropped from 37% to 24% in one year, and that's with the Bulls going away from the 3pt offense as the shortened line was removed..
Comparing Jordan and Kobe as 3pt shooters
Last edited by ImKobe; 08-25-2015 at 10:54 AM.
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08-25-2015, 10:53 AM #14The Wizard
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
Yeah, if you throw out Shaq's prime and then compare his pre-and-post prime years to Kobe's prime years, Kobe looks pretty good Originally Posted by West-Side
Shaquille hasn't won a damn thing without Kobe Bryant. He wasn't even the best player in his only other title run, Wade was. While Kobe led his team to 3 straight final appearances, winning two titles just 3 years after the two players went their separate way.
. But why should Shaq's prime years be thrown out? His peak was clearly better than Kobe's.
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08-25-2015, 10:57 AM #15The Wizard
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Re: How Overrated is Kobe?
adjusting for era, Kobe's best season is still only 26th in Winshares since 2000. Originally Posted by West-Side
His points per shot was higher than Jordan's compared to league average.
Context matters in these comparisons since Jordan did not play during the same time frame as Kobe did.
Since 2000 LeBron, Durant, Dirk, KG, CP3, and Duncan have MULTIPLE seasons with higher WS than Kobe's BEST season. None of them had a Shaq though.
oh and btw, total winshares should make Kobe look better than he is, because he wasn't sitting out significant amounts of time due to injury, and was a high-minutes player.Last edited by ralph_i_el; 08-25-2015 at 11:03 AM.
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