After Jordan era who do you think is/was the best player.

[Greg Oden 50]

Peak:

Shaq>LeBron>Duncan>KG>Kobe=Wade=Tmac>Dirk

Overall:

Shaq>Duncan>LeBron>Kobe>KG>Wade>Dirk

DUNCAN >>>>>> LEBRON

[OldSkoolball#52]

Kobe clearly has the greatest career since Jordan.

Anything on his resume relating to postseason success is a testament to the organization he played for. In other words, luck. Look at the Lakers payroll during the back to back titles. At the top of the league. During the threepeat? They had MDE. Kobe is not a stellar playoff performer except against junk defensive teams like the Jazz and Suns. He visibly quit against the Mavs a couple years ago, then against OKC the next year, and even went down with a sudden, inexplicable "injury" just days before he was set to make his 3rd consecutive first round exit vs. the Spurs.

In the regular season he has a lot of scoring records. Why? Because he holds all the records for attempts (and misses). He has 1 MVP. He was voted to a bunch of nba teams by voters who simply jot in the names of the biggest stars.

His impact is incredibly overstated. His team wins more when he shoots less, and yet he always forces shots in order to look cool and heroic. The team performs roughly the same whether he's in or out of the lineup.


Without the MDE and the Buss family's money? Kobe's career would compare to Iverson's, McGrady's... even Melo's.

Real tawk. Sorry Charlie. I don't even dislike the guy. Just speaking the truth about basketball.

[moe94]

Real tawk. Sorry Charlie. I don't even dislike the guy. Just speaking the truth about basketball.

Your excuses are irrelevant to the fact that he holds the most accolades and hardware. Period.

[comerb]

Shaq at his peak, that dude was just unreal for a handful of years.

Lebron as far as career goes. How he managed to get even better over the last 2 years at this point in his career is ridiculous.

[OldSkoolball#52]

Your excuses are irrelevant to the fact that he holds the most accolades and hardware. Period.

Thread question was "who is/was the best player"

Not who holds the most accolades and hardware.


Taylor Swift has a larger volume of accolades and hardware than myriad musicians she could never hold a candle to. It proves next to nothing.


Kobe has very little claim to the actual question the OP asked, which basically refers to impact on the court.

[NumberSix]

1. Shaq/LeBron
2. Shaq/LeBron
3. KG
4. Duncan
5. Wade

[moe94]

Thread question was "who is/was the best player"

Not who holds the most accolades and hardware.

So Kidd and Dirk were better players than Kevin Garnett, right?

[TheReal Kendall]

1. Shaq/LeBron
2. Shaq/LeBron
3. KG
4. Duncan
5. Wade

This seems about right but I would put Duncan over KG.

Kobe as an argument for that 5th spot also

[La Frescobaldi]

Shaq at his peak, that dude was just unreal for a handful of years.

Lebron as far as career goes. How he managed to get even better over the last 2 years at this point in his career is ridiculous.

Actually it isn't.
Notice all the greatest players improve after several years in the league. They have peak seasons around their 3rd year, more or less proving they can smash the league whenever they want. Chamberlain's 3rd season 50 & 25. Jordan's 3rd season 37 ppg and the only other guy than Wilt to get more than 3000 pts in a season. Kareem 3rd season 34.8 ppg & 16 rpg. Shaq same, 29 & 11, most guys do it; LeBron's personal best, his 31 ppg season was his 3rd year.

It's very consistent - elite players have their best (or real close) individual season that 3rd year. Making a statement.

But they figure out, or more accurately, their coaches figure out, how to get that dazzling talent to work within a team concept. At that point you start seeing all-round greatness. In some cases, like Chamberlain, and like LeBron, they had to move to get a coach & an organization they could work with.... others, like Bryant & Jordan had to wait while the organization was built around them.
It's a joke for these guys to say that Kobe Bryant's organization is the reason he's been so great.
I can't think of too many truly great players on top-flight teams who have had such a shoddy cast around them as what the Lakers have done around Bryant. Paul Pierce another.

But James is almost a perfect pattern of the NBA elite. I doubt we have seen his best yet.

[christian1923]

Shaq, kobe, Duncan, lebron, kg, wade, dirk

[Round Mound]

Shaq or Duncan

[Greg Oden 50]

1. Shaq/LeBron
2. Shaq/LeBron
3. KG
4. Duncan
5. Wade

lebron 2nd

[Mrofir]

Holy crap I can't believe I'm coming to Kobe's defense on ISH

but I am le sorry, Wade is not going to rank above Kobe in the post Jordan era. That's ridiculous.

If you really don't like Bryant this is the WORST you can do to him:

1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Lebron
4. Kobe
5. KG/Wade

top 3 being interchangeable.

The way I actually see it, TODAY

1. Shaq (most dominant peak)
2. Kobe/Duncan
3. Duncan/Kobe
4. Lebron
5. KG/Wade

The way I see it shaking out in the next 8 years or so

1. Duncan (I think he gets one more chip)
2. Lebron (I think he gets 3 more)
3. Kobe/Shaq
4. Shaq/Kobe
5. All the rest

but really, top 3 are totally interchangeable. I give Duncan the edge because of the ridiculous streak of contending teams -- basically his entire career. Lebron is in a similar boat, but not quite to the same extent. Kobe and Shaq both played on some non contenders that they couldn't really help. Nobody else comes close imo... If Lebron doesn't get 3 more, he drops to 4th on this list.

[moe94]

If Lebron doesn't get 3 more, he drops to 4th on this list.

You actually think LeBron needs 3 more rings to be ranked higher than Kobe on an all time list?

[Mrofir]

You actually think LeBron needs 3 more rings to be ranked higher than Kobe on an all time list?

I think if Kobe finishes with 5 and Lebron with 4, it would be a tossup for most people.

So yes, for it to be definitive he needs to win 5 championships. He's obviously got the team to do it with, so no excuses.