Magic Johnson refused to play for the Bulls and threatened to return to MSU (Michigan

[97 bulls]

Well, MJ suffered early on for sure, but the team showed signs of getting better and obviously Pippen came (in 88 in MJ's 4th year).

MJ lost in game 7 in the ECF in year 6 with Pippen showing all the proper signs of becoming an elite player. In year 7, they won the title.

MJ really only had to play his first 5 years without having a legit contending team.

I don't think that is comparable to Lebron because Lebron never had that 2nd star and his team after year 7 was only going to get worse, not better.


Yes, Magic chose to only come out to play with Kareem/Lakers because it was the best chance for him to market himself and win titles. I really don't see anything wrong with that.

Very similar to Kobe forcing his way to the Lakers. Its just smart. Why would any player settle on another franchise if the Lakers or Celtics were an option right off the bat? Honestly, that would be just stupid to pass up those chances.

I really don't see a similarity between jordan and johnson. Johnson said he wanted to play with kareem and the lakers cuz obviously they were one of the best teams. And that he would've stayed in school rather than play with a bad team.

Jordan turned the bulls into a champion. They weren't champions when he was drafted or even remotely close to it. And 5 years is a long time to endure loosing.

This goes back to the debate we had when you asked me who id pick to start a franchise between magic and pippen. This further solidifies my stance that I know that pippen could at least stay competitive with a bad team. Magic would refuse to play or quit if it didn't go right for him. He's done it 3 times in his career.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

[SpecialQue]

I'm really not getting this weird retro-hating of Magic Johnson that's popping up all of a sudden. Is is because someone hurt your feelings by saying Jordan ain't the GOAT?

[DMAVS41]

Its not comparable in that the 90s Bulls looked like they were going to get better while 10s Cavs weren't. I agree. And I don't really fault Lebron for leaving either.

What is comparable though is their situations in their first 6-7 seasons when it comes to winning, not taking into account their potential futures after that. The Cavs in 2010 were definitely capable of at least making the Finals that year. That team was better then average, and before anyone mentions them, trying to use the 2011 Cavs as evidence that they weren't would be wrong.

Totally agree.

MJ won in year 7. Lebron could have if he played amazing. Both had chances in year 6, but its hard to fault them because they both played great.

I'm only talking about the first 7 years. Now that we saw Lebron choke in the finals, its not very logical to say he would have won in the past with more help.

I do still believe the Cavs would have won in 08 and 09 if they had a legit 2nd star like Chris Paul, but we will obviously never know.

My point was that after Jordan's first 5 years, the writing was on the wall. The team was improving and Pippen looked to be a great fit and looked like a lock to become a star. With the Cavs, it was the opposite. The team had no direction and honestly could only get worse. Cleveland doesn't attract free agents and they had very few trade assets to get the kind of 2nd star in there they needed.

One team was on its way up....the other was on its way down.

[DMAVS41]

I really don't see a similarity between jordan and johnson. Johnson said he wanted to play with kareem and the lakers cuz obviously they were one of the best teams. And that he would've stayed in school rather than play with a bad team.

Jordan turned the bulls into a champion. They weren't champions when he was drafted or even remotely close to it. And 5 years is a long time to endure loosing.

This goes back to the debate we had when you asked me who id pick to start a franchise between magic and pippen. This further solidifies my stance that I know that pippen could at least stay competitive with a bad team. Magic would refuse to play or quit if it didn't go right for him. He's done it 3 times in his career.

I never compared MJ to Magic in that sense. I simply said I think the notion that old school stars would not team up with other great players is silly. And I stand by that.

I never said MJ somehow did something similar to Magic. He obviously did not.


I'll never understand your take on Magic vs Pippen. But this isn't about that at all.

[LeFraud James]

InB4 someone says LeBron had no choice but to play for Cleveland.

[COLOR="White"]Even though it's true.[/COLOR]

[catch24]

Idiots that still think Pippen >>>> Magic

[Kblaze8855]

Yea I thought this was pretty common knowledge.

[jlip]

Yea I thought this was pretty common knowledge.

Me too.

[IGOTGAME]

Totally agree.

MJ won in year 7. Lebron could have if he played amazing. Both had chances in year 6, but its hard to fault them because they both played great.

I'm only talking about the first 7 years. Now that we saw Lebron choke in the finals, its not very logical to say he would have won in the past with more help.

I do still believe the Cavs would have won in 08 and 09 if they had a legit 2nd star like Chris Paul, but we will obviously never know.

My point was that after Jordan's first 5 years, the writing was on the wall. The team was improving and Pippen looked to be a great fit and looked like a lock to become a star. With the Cavs, it was the opposite. The team had no direction and honestly could only get worse. Cleveland doesn't attract free agents and they had very few trade assets to get the kind of 2nd star in there they needed.

One team was on its way up....the other was on its way down.

so? The team would be the best team in the league by far if they had all that talent and Chris Paul. The Cavs had deadly shooters plus amazing defense and rebounding and then you add in the best pg in the world(especially in 2008 where Paul had one of the greatest pg seasons ever).

[catch24]

And also gotta lol @ the revisionist history calling Magic a quitter. Lets not forget Pippen cried like a bitch, sitting on the sidelines and refusing to take the court during that pivotal game 3 vs NY, because the play Jackson diagrammed didn't include him.

[Rose]

And also gotta lol @ the revisionist history calling Magic a quitter. Lets not forget Pippen cried like a bitch, sitting on the sidelines and refusing to take the court during that pivotal game 3 vs NY, because the play Jackson diagrammed didn't include him.

I do agree with your point. But I totally take Pippen's side. All year he was told he could carry them, that they were his team now, and he was what? second in MVP voting I think? He had every right to be mad.

[catch24]

I do agree with your point. But I totally take Pippen's side. All year he was told he could carry them, that they were his team now, and he was what? second in MVP voting I think? He had every right to be mad.

I don't. He was a team player; the quote-on-quote, "utility guy". Jackson drew up a play for Steve Kerr during the '97 Finals, while Michael, throughout his career, was the go-to-man. Where's the difference?

Refusing to come back into a game because your coach drew up a play for the better shooter is ridiculous. Unsportsmanlike even.

[rodman91]

[caliman]

Magic Johnson was an incredible basketball player and an incredibly stupid human being. You need look no further than his basketball analysis or lack thereof.

I do believe you're the one that is stupid. No one can have the tremendous business success that Magic has had and say he is stupid. He may not be articulate, but he is far from stupid.