Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops



Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2012, 02:06 PM   #61
97 bulls
NBA Superstar
 
97 bulls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,685
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwink23
Can you imagine Jordan teaming up with Barkley and Olajuwon and NOT winning a championship??
This isn't a comparison between jordan and pippen.
97 bulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 03:49 PM   #62
hitmanyr2k
Complete Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

The double-standard against Pippen has always been ridiculous to me. You lose Michael Jordan 3 weeks before the season starts and basically get nothing in return. Pete Myers and Jo Jo English? Cmon. Cartwright is old and barely plays. Paxson is old and barely plays. Scott Williams is out for most of the year. You have 6 new faces on the team that have to learn the triangle offense. Longley didn't even come over until a mid-season trade. But Scottie Pippen is somehow supposed to put it all together in one season and win a title as the only star on the team. It's ****in ridiculous.

The '95 team gets even worse when they lose Cartwright, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams to free agency. Luc Longley is out for the first 2 months with a fracture in his foot. The Bulls interior presence? Will Perdue, rookie Dickey Simpkins, Greg Foster and Larry Krystowiak playing musical chairs. It gets so bad Pippen has to guard 1-4 at several points during the game, run the offense and be the playmaker, and be the leading rebounder on his team. And dumbasses who probably didn't even watch the Bulls during that time wonder why they were a .500 team all year
hitmanyr2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 03:53 PM   #63
bizil
College superstar
 
bizil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,674
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
Lol what a bunch of dumbasses. Especially bizil. Im sorry biz. But I've shown you instances of pippen taking over games and you just want to overlook that. Its not
pippens fault that his to prime coincided with jordan. And thus didn't have a fair enough opportunity to like magic or kobe. What's more, only on insidehoops could a player that won 6the championships two gold medals, has the second highest all-time win percentage, regarded as the best wing defender ever, I could go on and on, be penalized for not avg 25 ppg.

Here we go again with your bitch ass. The bottom line is Pippen is not what u look for in a true number one scoring option. Pip is still a great player, but he's not that guy. Sure Pip HAD HIS MOMENTS! But he didn't do it consistently enough to be considered a number one scoring option u can build a team around. That year MJ left for baseball, Pip needed to score more buckets for that team to be successful. That was the time for Pip to step up and assume that mantle. Sure he had an MVP caliber year.

But if HE TRULY HAD THE ALPHA DOG GENE IT WOULDN'T HAVE COME DOWN TO THAT BULLSHIT CALL IN THE KNICKS SERIES. Even a guy like Lebron would have got that Bulls team farther than Pippen did. Because Lebron is a dominant scorer when he needs to be, even though he may not be as clutch as we would like. Bron puts the foot on the gas scoring wise early in addition to bringing his epic all around game. Guys like Bron, MJ, Kobe, Wade, Bird, etc. simply have another gear, two, or three that Pippen CANNOT match in terms of scoring dominance.

THESE ARE FACTS BITCH AND NO OPINION! So take Pip's dick outta your mouth, stop juggling his balls, and face reality BITCH! But then again Pip busted a nut in your eye so u aren't CAPABLE of seeing the truth BITCH ASS! Dont ever test me on here again. Pip simply couldn't will a team to victory scoring the way other great all around players could. That '94 season proved that. U put MJ or a Lebron in place of Pip on that team and that Bulls team has a WAY BETTER chance at a ring. Reason being is because they put the foot on the gas scoring wise in ways Pip NEVER COULD! Even with Bron's faults down at moments, he's clearly a dominant alpha dog type scorer who has the third best PPG career average of all time!
bizil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #64
bwink23
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,024
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
The double-standard against Pippen has always been ridiculous to me. You lose Michael Jordan 3 weeks before the season starts and basically get nothing in return. Pete Myers and Jo Jo English? Cmon. Cartwright is old and barely plays. Paxson is old and barely plays. Scott Williams is out for most of the year. You have 6 new faces on the team that have to learn the triangle offense. Longley didn't even come over until a mid-season trade. But Scottie Pippen is somehow supposed to put it all together in one season and win a title as the only star on the team. It's ****in ridiculous.

The '95 team gets even worse when they lose Cartwright, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams to free agency. Luc Longley is out for the first 2 months with a fracture in his foot. The Bulls interior presence? Will Perdue, rookie Dickey Simpkins, Greg Foster and Larry Krystowiak playing musical chairs. It gets so bad Pippen has to guard 1-4 at several points during the game, run the offense and be the playmaker, and be the leading rebounder on his team. And dumbasses who probably didn't even watch the Bulls during that time wonder why they were a .500 team all year


No one said Pippen had it easy...but he far from CARRIED that team. They were NOT short of talent.

20-10 while averaging 16 points a game...LOL

the Bulls were imploding before Jordan's arrival...sure they won 8 of 10 just before he returned...but most of those wins were vs. the bottom feeder teams in the league.


Pippen is not, and never could be a #1 option that could carry a team to a championship.
bwink23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:08 PM   #65
bizil
College superstar
 
bizil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,674
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

With all of Pippen's accolades:

2 time gold medalist
Six NBA titles
7 time All Star
7 time All NBA
10 time All NBA
Arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time
Revolutionized the small forward position

Why isn't he ranked higher on the GOAT list? He has more rings than:

Big O
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Bird

He's tied with:

MJ
Kareem

The only guy with more rings than him in the top 10 GOAT players ever is Russell! Guys like Dr. J, West, Hakeem, Big O, Barkley, Karl and Moses Malone, Isiah, Hondo, Baylor, and Barry are all usually ranked ahead of Pippen historically. Guys like like KG, Dirk, Bron, and Wade will pass him by. So the question is why is Pippen only ranked on most GOAT list in the late 20's to early 30's at the highest? It's because MOST OF THE OTHER GUYS RANKED AHEAD OF HIM are ALPHA DOG TYPE GUYS! And I don't wanna hear he played with MJ and deferred. U had these great tandems:

West-Baylor
Magic-Kareem
Big O-Kareem
Dr.J-Moses
Kobe-Shaq

Now u have Bron-Wade and even Durant-Westbrook. All of these tandems have two alpha dog type guys and these tandems THRIVED! So that's no excuse for Pip! He simply was a great all around player who doesn't look to takeover a game consistently enough when needed scoring. Or Pip doesn't put the foot on the gas scoring like these other guys. Sure Pip has aveaged 23 points in a season. But he still doesn't put the foot on the gas like the great scorers do. Even PG's like Westbrook, Rose, Isiah, Frazier, Big O, Magic, Payton, Isiah, Tiny, Nash, CP3, and DWill are ALL better than Pip in that aspect. So u can be a pass first player who puts the foot on the gas scoring when it is needed.
bizil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:14 PM   #66
hitmanyr2k
Complete Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,623
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwink23
No one said Pippen had it easy...but he far from CARRIED that team. They were NOT short of talent.

20-10 while averaging 16 points a game...LOL

the Bulls were imploding before Jordan's arrival...sure they won 8 of 10 just before he returned...but most of those wins were vs. the bottom feeder teams in the league.


Pippen is not, and never could be a #1 option that could carry a team to a championship.

I don't give a shit what Pippen scored during wins. If the Bulls were flowing as a team Pippen wasn't some stat whore that had to pad his stats to make himself look good. Even on nights when he had it going he still wasn't the kind of guy to just keep taking shot after shot. It was all about getting the win. Tim Duncan was a similar player. His stats didn't jump out at you every night (even when the Spurs won) but it's not hard to see he was the one who made that Spurs team go. Stats never tell the whole story. You're ignorant if you think otherwise.

And what kind of dumbass factors in points only while ignoring playmaking, rebounding, defense? Maybe Pippen should have ignored the other facets of the game and just became a one dimensional scorer so idiots 15-20 years later could read box scores and look solely at scoring
hitmanyr2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:16 PM   #67
bwink23
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,024
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k
I don't give a shit what Pippen scored during wins. If the Bulls were flowing as a team Pippen wasn't some stat whore that had to pad his stats to make himself look good. Even on nights when he had it going he still wasn't the kind of guy to just keep taking shot after shot. It was all about getting the win. Tim Duncan was a similar player. His stats didn't jump out at you every night (even when the Spurs won) but it's not hard to see he was the one who made that Spurs team go. Stats never tell the whole story. You're ignorant if you think otherwise.

And what kind of dumbass factors in points only while ignoring playmaking, rebounding, defense? Maybe Pippen should have ignored the other facets of the game and just became a one dimensional scorer so idiots 15-20 years later could read box scores and look solely at scoring


I've already posted Pippen's all-around numbers...good yes, but similar to what he had done in years past. He was not, and never could be a #1 option that could take a team to a championship...
bwink23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:17 PM   #68
bizil
College superstar
 
bizil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,674
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapallaz
Question: Do you have to be a leader or alpha dog to be considered a better player than some other greatest players who were alpha dogs? I dont think so.

In certain cases u are correct. But when u are compared to great all around players who are ALSO ALPHA DOGS like MJ, Kobe, Bron, Wade, Magic, Bird, Hondo, and Big O, there is NO ARGUMENT Pip has over these guys. Because they are amongst the greatest all around AND the greatest in terms of scoring ability. I would even take certain scoring machines like Nique, Bernard King, Durant, and Dr.J over Pippen as well. GOAT wise Pippen is ranked over many guys because he revolutionized a position AND accumulated a great resume. But peak value wise, I would take a Nique, Dr.J, Durant, or Bernard King over Pippen. They are so dominant scoring the ball and can carry teams. Which is something Pip didn't show consistently enough.
bizil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #69
bwink23
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,024
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

I've been watching Pippen since DAY ONE he entered the league...He is not THAT GUY who can put a team on his back when needed and come through in the most critical situations. Pip was a GREAT player, one of the most complete in NBA history. But, he simply wasn't a #1 option player.
bwink23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:21 PM   #70
bizil
College superstar
 
bizil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,674
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwink23
I've already posted Pippen's all-around numbers...good yes, but similar to what he had done in years past. He was not, and never could be a #1 option that could take a team to a championship...

I agree 100%! I don't see why people get so defensive about this. Pip was still a great player and HOFer. Guys like Stockton and Rodman are legends without being a number one option guy. Kidd will soon be in the HOF as well. Arguably Mutumbo will be in. Many of us have NEVER said Pip wasn't a great player. Many of us have NEVER said Pip sucked at scoring. But number one option shit isn't what made Pip a legend. Redefining his position and becoming arguably the greatest perimeter defender EVER is what made Pip a legend. If I had to pick one perimeter defender to check a MJ, Kobe, Bron, Bird, or Wade, Pip would most likely be my pick.
bizil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:26 PM   #71
bwink23
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,024
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
I agree 100%! I don't see why people get so defensive about this. Pip was still a great player and HOFer. Guys like Stockton and Rodman are legends without being a number one option guy. Kidd will soon be in the HOF as well. Arguably Mutumbo will be in. Many of us have NEVER said Pip wasn't a great player. Many of us have NEVER said Pip sucked at scoring. But number one option shit isn't what made Pip a legend. Redefining his position and becoming arguably the greatest perimeter defender EVER is what made Pip a legend. If I had to pick one perimeter defender to check a MJ, Kobe, Bron, Bird, or Wade, Pip would most likely be my pick.


I agree....Pippen could be known as the best #2 guy ever, he's certainly in that discussion. It gets silly when people think he was a #1 option guy who could take a team to a championship. That's where the idiocy needs to stop.
bwink23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 04:55 PM   #72
Maestro33
Decent playground baller
 
Maestro33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 353
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
The double-standard against Pippen has always been ridiculous to me. You lose Michael Jordan 3 weeks before the season starts and basically get nothing in return. Pete Myers and Jo Jo English? Cmon. Cartwright is old and barely plays. Paxson is old and barely plays. Scott Williams is out for most of the year. You have 6 new faces on the team that have to learn the triangle offense. Longley didn't even come over until a mid-season trade. But Scottie Pippen is somehow supposed to put it all together in one season and win a title as the only star on the team. It's ****in ridiculous.

The '95 team gets even worse when they lose Cartwright, Horace Grant, and Scott Williams to free agency. Luc Longley is out for the first 2 months with a fracture in his foot. The Bulls interior presence? Will Perdue, rookie Dickey Simpkins, Greg Foster and Larry Krystowiak playing musical chairs. It gets so bad Pippen has to guard 1-4 at several points during the game, run the offense and be the playmaker, and be the leading rebounder on his team. And dumbasses who probably didn't even watch the Bulls during that time wonder why they were a .500 team all year


ABSOLUTELY! One of the sharpest responses Ive ever seen on here. TY!
Maestro33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #73
97 bulls
NBA Superstar
 
97 bulls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 13,685
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bizil
With all of Pippen's accolades:

2 time gold medalist
Six NBA titles
7 time All Star
7 time All NBA
10 time All NBA
Arguably the greatest perimeter defender of all time
Revolutionized the small forward position

Why isn't he ranked higher on the GOAT list? He has more rings than:

Big O
Duncan
Shaq
Kobe
Wilt
Magic
Bird

He's tied with:

MJ
Kareem

The only guy with more rings than him in the top 10 GOAT players ever is Russell! Guys like Dr. J, West, Hakeem, Big O, Barkley, Karl and Moses Malone, Isiah, Hondo, Baylor, and Barry are all usually ranked ahead of Pippen historically. Guys like like KG, Dirk, Bron, and Wade will pass him by. So the question is why is Pippen only ranked on most GOAT list in the late 20's to early 30's at the highest? It's because MOST OF THE OTHER GUYS RANKED AHEAD OF HIM are ALPHA DOG TYPE GUYS! And I don't wanna hear he played with MJ and deferred. U had these great tandems:

West-Baylor
Magic-Kareem
Big O-Kareem
Dr.J-Moses
Kobe-Shaq

Now u have Bron-Wade and even Durant-Westbrook. All of these tandems have two alpha dog type guys and these tandems THRIVED! So that's no excuse for Pip! He simply was a great all around player who doesn't look to takeover a game consistently enough when needed scoring. Or Pip doesn't put the foot on the gas scoring like these other guys. Sure Pip has aveaged 23 points in a season. But he still doesn't put the foot on the gas like the great scorers do. Even PG's like Westbrook, Rose, Isiah, Frazier, Big O, Magic, Payton, Isiah, Tiny, Nash, CP3, and DWill are ALL better than Pip in that aspect. So u can be a pass first player who puts the foot on the gas scoring when it is needed.
He's not ranked higher than the players listed cuz he didn't have 10 years to succeed and lead his team.

And when are you gonna start to acknowledge that there's more ways to lead a team than just scoring. Magic wasn't an alpha dog scorer. Neither was russell. Magics thing was passing and scoring. Russel defense and rebounding, pippen defense and scoring.

You need to stop over valuing scoring. Remember my kevin mchale comparison? Who would you choose between mchale and pippen?
97 bulls is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 06:27 PM   #74
bizil
College superstar
 
bizil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,674
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
He's not ranked higher than the players listed cuz he didn't have 10 years to succeed and lead his team.

And when are you gonna start to acknowledge that there's more ways to lead a team than just scoring. Magic wasn't an alpha dog scorer. Neither was russell. Magics thing was passing and scoring. Russel defense and rebounding, pippen defense and scoring.

You need to stop over valuing scoring. Remember my kevin mchale comparison? Who would you choose between mchale and pippen?

Magic clearly showed he was an alpha dog! He showed that his rookie year with 42 points, 15 boards, and 7 dimes winning a title. He stepped up for Kareem in a way Pippen NEVER could! Magic was a pass first PG who could turn into an alpha dog and takeover a game scoring. U are correct about Russell. But Russell has such an insane amount of rings and revolutionized the center position. So that's why he's regarded a top 6-7 GOAT of all time. I tend to even think that Russell is slightly overrated. Peak value wise at best I have Russell number 10 amongst centers. Give me Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, David, Ewing, Walton, and McAdoo over Russell. And to be frank, guys like Bellamy, Howard, Zo, Thurmond, and Gilmore peak value wise I would maybe consider over Russell as well.

I don't overvalue scoring. Whoever has the most points, runs, or goals in a game WINS THE GAME! ITS THE ONLY STAT THAT GUARANTEES A WIN 100% OF THE TIME! So their is ALWAYS a premium for scoring at EVERY POSITION other than PG. In other words if needed, these guys can go off for 40 or 50 points when needed. Or they can score 10-15 consecutive points and go on a tear. Or they can have 15 points going into the fourth quarter and end up with 30 points at the end of the game. Or if anything u tell everybody else GET THE HELL OUT THE WAY and they takeover. Pip never had these moments consistently enough to be considered a true blue number one option. And even most of the GOAT PG's are known to carry teams and go on scoring binges CONSISTENTLY.


When it comes to McHale vs. Pippen, GOAT wise Pip might rank higher. In terms of peak value, I would rather have McHale. McHale has arguably the best back to basket game of all time, could play and defend three positions, and he also had a very good faceup midrange game. McHale is one of the most versatile Power Forwards of all time. He was way more versatile than guys like Petitt, Malone, Dave D, Hayes, etc. It takes guys like a Barkley, Webber, KG, or Duncan to top McHale in that aspect. And when u throw in his defensive versatility, that number even gets lower.
bizil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 06:32 PM   #75
bizil
College superstar
 
bizil's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,674
Default Re: And then Pippen did this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 bulls
He's not ranked higher than the players listed cuz he didn't have 10 years to succeed and lead his team.

And when are you gonna start to acknowledge that there's more ways to lead a team than just scoring. Magic wasn't an alpha dog scorer. Neither was russell. Magics thing was passing and scoring. Russel defense and rebounding, pippen defense and scoring.

You need to stop over valuing scoring. Remember my kevin mchale comparison? Who would you choose between mchale and pippen?

U keep missing the point. He didn't have to flat out lead the team for ten years. He had to show he was capable of being a guy u can build your team around. And capable of taking over a game scoring. That's why Pippen is ranked in the late 20's to early 30's on the GOAT list. Other than Bird and Hondo, he's the most accomplished SF of all time in terms of resume. Their have been many dynamic duos or even trios that take turns showing their brilliance in these aspects. When people saw West and Baylor, u knew u had two number one option type guys under one roof. With Doc and Moses u saw the same thing. Kobe and Shaq, Wade and Shaq, Penny and Shaq were like this as well. What made Pippen and Jordan great was the defense and versatility. In terms of scoring punch and devastation, Jordan and Pippen fall behind the duos I mentioned. In the all around sense, MJ and Pippen are the greatest duo of all time in terms of how complete both players were.
bizil is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:




Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 AM.






NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:

InsideHoops.com Home

NBA Rumors

NBA Daily Roundup

NBA Scores

NBA Stats

NBA Videos

NBA Free Agents

Fantasy Basketball

Basketball Sneakers

Search Site

STAY CONNECTED
Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube














Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy