LeBron is Playing with Career Losers.

[JtotheIzzo]

Funny how the guy with the great bball IQ, the guy who manages his image so carefully could overlook such a fundamental aspect to a player's make up, but somehow Bran got caught napping and he is paying the price now.

The Cavs core players (Love, Irving, Thompson, and Waiters) have never played on a playoff team, they haven't a clue how to win and they are plenty comfortable producing and plowing through the season. You see, these guys don't know how to win, and it is going to take them a long time to change their entire NBA makeover to that of a winner because they have all received praise and accolades without ever doing anything of note. Not having that knowledge and feel for what it takes to win (due to never experiencing it) is a huge detriment and it may take a couple of seasons for Bran to teach them (though by shipping Wiggins and Bennett out of town, its obvious the last thing Bran wants to do is teach or mentor).

In Miami Bran had Wade (heart of a lion and a champion), Ray Allen (so clutch and a champion), high character guys like Miller and Battier and dogs like Birdman and Haslem, in Cleveland he has an older Miller, brittle Andy and Shawn Marion.

With an unwilling leader like Bran, a club with a culture of losing and a rookie coach from Euroland, it is going to be really difficult to make sweeping attitudinal changes in Cleveland.

We really should have seen this coming. They can sort it out, but it might be more difficult than people thought.

[T_L_P]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kyrie collect three pieces of hardware last year, whilst LeBron got none?

[IGOTGAME]

The team will be more than fine. Everyone is jumping the gun. They will go to the Eastern Conference Finals or Finals and then next year they will add a shotblocker and improve.

[JtotheIzzo]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kyrie collect three pieces of hardware last year, whilst LeBron got none?

Yeah he did, which is part of the problem now as being a great talent, he sees no reason to change, no need to improve, he is doing his thing, can't see the forest for the trees. Don't get me wrong, I am sure Kyrie wants to win, but he needs to learn how.

Right now this is his production in the grander scheme:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2014.html

[LAZERUSS]

Before Lebron arrived, Wade was pretty much a "loser", as well. Same with Chris Bosh before he joined up.

[JtotheIzzo]

Before Lebron arrived, Wade was pretty much a "loser", as well. Same with Chris Bosh before he joined up.

Yeah, a 'loser' with a championship and a finals MVP, but go on...

[LAZERUSS]

Yeah, a 'loser' with a championship and a finals MVP, but go on...

'06-07... 44-38 and swept in 1st round.
'07-08... 10-41 and missed the playoffs
'08-09... 43-39 and lost in 1st round, 4-3.
'09-10... 47-35 and lost in 1st round, 4-1.

[White Mamba]

he is the loser

Pau gasol played 12 playoffs games on a 50 wins team and won 0, than go on to win twice and made it to 3 nba finals with GodBe the winner.

Lebron won shit playing for the cavs, than run with his talents to south beach to lose 2 out of 4 finals with the monster he created - the ultimate loser.

[JtotheIzzo]

'06-07... 44-38 and swept in 1st round.
'07-08... 10-41 and missed the playoffs
'08-09... 43-39 and lost in 1st round, 4-3.
'09-10... 47-35 and lost in 1st round, 4-1.

3/4 of those season are over .500 and in the playoffs, you are either trolling right now, or a very simple person.

[LAZERUSS]

3/4 of those season are over .500 and in the playoffs, you are either trolling right now, or a very simple person.

BTW, just how much did Wade contribute in the post-season in their two title runs? Same with his two Finals performances in those two years, as well?

[JtotheIzzo]

BTW, just how much did Wade contribute in the post-season in their two title runs? Same with his two Finals performances in those two years, as well?

OK, so it is simple. You are missing the point, Wade has won, knows winning and what it takes. The Cavs core has never played in a playoff game, never had to dig deep on a back to back, never had to close out weak teams on off nights.

There are things that winners do that take time to learn, a culture needs to be put in place, it just can't happen when most of your core has never played a game in the playoffs in their entire careers.

[T_L_P]

he is the loser

Pau gasol played 12 playoffs games on a 50 wins team and won 0, than go on to win twice and made it to 3 nba finals with GodBe the winner.

Lebron won shit playing for the cavs, than run with his talents to south beach to lose 2 out of 4 finals with the monster he created - the ultimate loser.

I definitely think LeBron is pretty poor leader, especially with players of comparable talents...but he and the Cavs didn't have someone like Phil Jackson to mold Gasol or show him how things are done.

You seems to forget that Kobe's years without Phil have been laughable (bench player before him, missed Playoffs and couldn't stay on the court during the sabbatical year, has been basically irrelevant and not competed for a ring since).

[LAZERUSS]

OK, so it is simple. You are missing the point, Wade has won, knows winning and what it takes. The Cavs core has never played in a playoff game, never had to dig deep on a back to back, never had to close out weak teams on off nights.

There are things that winners do that take time to learn, a culture needs to be put in place, it just can't happen when most of your core has never played a game in the playoffs in their entire careers.

Well, ...and I think we would both agree... Lebron has carried his team's in his entire post-season career, whether it was with experienced "winners" or even "losers." His two 60+ seasons with the Cavs earlier in his career was testament to that.

And I have no doubt that he will lead this team into the playoffs, as well. As usual, the majority of ISH are jumping to conclusions based on a tiny sample of games and early in the season.

This Cavs roster is just to talented to finish below .500. I think even without Lebron, they would be capable of a .500 season. With him...I suspect that they will win at least 50 games, and be force in the playoffs.

[BuffaloBill]

Before Lebron arrived, Wade was pretty much a "loser", as well. Same with Chris Bosh before he joined up.

Dumbest thing I've read all day. (Even though it's only 10 am)

[STATUTORY]

riiiight, so all the sudden Love/Irving/Waiters aren't good

Lebron turns great players into role players. and he thought he was coming back home so he could do whatever he wanted again but this time Kyrie and Dion aren't letting him do them like kunta kinte