Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-22-2016, 04:23 AM   #1
3ball
NBA Superstar
 
3ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 14,382
Default #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Every single player, coach and analyst says this.. Among non-big men - Bird, Magic, and MJ elevated teammates better than anyone.. Kobe does well too - the story was never that his teammates underperformed.

Otoh, the story is ALWAYS how Lebron's teammates underperform - this is because he turns them into play-finishers and their predictable play-finishing roles no longer succeed against the best teams in the playoffs.

This inferior brand of basketball that Lebron imposes on his team is why his team/supporting cast underperforms - it's like clockwork... 2/7 anyone?.. Utimately, this is why he isn't a top 10 all-time player.
.

Last edited by 3ball : 01-22-2016 at 04:31 AM.
3ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 04:52 AM   #2
plowking
Verticle?
 
plowking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: We goin' Sizzler
Posts: 27,384
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.
plowking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 04:53 AM   #3
AirBonner
Banned
 
AirBonner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,958
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.
slayed
AirBonner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:02 AM   #4
warriorfan
The Bully
 
warriorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 18,558
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.


Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.
warriorfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:07 AM   #5
navy
Curry fam
 
navy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 15,824
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.
navy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:07 AM   #6
AirBonner
Banned
 
AirBonner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,958
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorfan
Wrong.

Scottie was hot garbage before Jordan, this is a known fact.

Scottie still wasn't the greatest even with the Jordan factor but still, if you are gonna try to tell us with a straight face that Scottie would of been better with out Jordan you are just trolling.

Scottie wasn't great but with out Jordan? He would of been straight shithouse material.
You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan
AirBonner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:10 AM   #7
warriorfan
The Bully
 
warriorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 18,558
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBonner
You can't say that hypothetical crap. What is a fact is Scottie led a 55 win team without Jordan

After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.

You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?

warriorfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:21 AM   #8
AirBonner
Banned
 
AirBonner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 7,958
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorfan
After getting tutored by the Greatest Player to ever play the game, day in and day out for close to a decade.

You finna act like Jordan didn't have an imprint on that?

I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him
AirBonner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:23 AM   #9
warriorfan
The Bully
 
warriorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 18,558
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBonner
I think its mutual thing bud. MJ wasn't winning anything before him

Yeah Jordan got just as much benefit from playing with Pippen as Pippen did with Jordan.

You have exposed yourself as a troll. You can get the fuck out now.
warriorfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:24 AM   #10
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 17,584
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking
You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.
REKT


@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:25 AM   #11
Dr Hawk
Lord Olajuwon
 
Dr Hawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,950
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

#1 criteria should be how high was a player's on court impact.

that's why I have Olajuwon comfortably in the Top5
Dr Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:26 AM   #12
plowking
Verticle?
 
plowking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: We goin' Sizzler
Posts: 27,384
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Bulls without Jordan - 55 wins
Lebron James on the Heat in his final year - 54 wins

So Jordan essentially lost to the Magic with a team better than the 2014 Miami Heat. Meanwhile Bron was able to get a worse team to the final.

Bron making his teammates better once again.
plowking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:28 AM   #13
warriorfan
The Bully
 
warriorfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 18,558
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj1987
REKT


@warriorsfan, if MJ was so good at developing players, why haven't we seen more Pippen's?

Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.

If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.
warriorfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:28 AM   #14
3ball
NBA Superstar
 
3ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 14,382
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by plowking

You always tell us how poor Scottie played, and how little help MJ has.

Like Scottie shooting 35% and only scoring 15ppg against the Sonics. Not to mention calling it the WOAT help, and giving a numerous amount of other examples.

So I guess we can say that Jordan isn't in that category and made his teammates significantly worse.

Jordan's team won every series where Pippen played poorly - in those series, Jordan simply carried the team and didn't worry about Pippen.

But anytime Jordan needed Pippen to play well to win the series, he made sure Pippen was playing well
.


There was only a ONE game where Scottie's poor performance caused the Bulls to lose, and Jordan was helpless to do anything about it - this was Pippen's epic choke in Game 7 of ECF (1-10 for 2 points), where Pippen admitted the pressure got to him.. Not much MJ could do about that.
3ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2016, 05:32 AM   #15
aj1987
MH!
 
aj1987's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 17,584
Default Re: #1 criteria for evaluating players - ELEVATING TEAMMATES

Quote:
Originally Posted by warriorfan
Thats not how it works. Pippen was inherently talented but lacked the Alphaness to maximize the most out of his talents. Jordan's lead and mentoring let him maximize the most out of his god given tools.

If anyone wants to sit here and say that Pippen would of been just as good of a player with out ever playing with MJ...They are being ridiculous.
So, what happened during the 2nd 3peat? MJ stopped pushing him? Also, what about the dozens of other athletic players? He couldn't develop them into at least Kevin Martin level offensive players? How about Bill Cartwright? Luc Longley? Bosh was a better rebounder than them.

Last edited by aj1987 : 01-22-2016 at 05:34 AM.
aj1987 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:55 PM.




NBA BASKETBALL FORUM KEY LINKS:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
Search Site

FOLLOW US
Twitter
Facebook
















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy