We get it, everything nowadays sucks, old times were the best.

[Fatstogie]

[QUOTE=MasterDurant24]Dwight Howard would rape:
Bob McAdoo
Nate Thurmond
Willis Reed
Bill Walton
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Wes Unseld
Elvin Hayes
Artis Gilmore
Spencer Haywood
Caldwell Jones
Bobby Jones

Really? These guys were either very athletic, very skilled, very long, or a combination of the aforementioned. Plus, centers could linger in the paint for however long they wanted as a result of the no defensive three seconds. Dwight Howard would need to develop a mid-range game or fine tune his offensive post skills to dominate.

What? Are you smoking crack bro? I wont even look the stat up but id bet that Dwight has the most 3 second violations in the league. And you think the lack of the rule would hurt him? You retarded? He would prefer not to have a 3 second rule. He would bully everyone if he could just stay in the paint.

And do Kobe, LeBron, and Wade not get the ball whenever they wanted it?

no they dont. Not even close to the level that MJ magic larry got the ball. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Ive seen Lebron on MANY occasions pissed cause he had to give the ball up.

I think you got it twisted around bro,

Naw my IQ is 155. Its the layman in here who have it twisted.

Magic had to share the ball with James Worthy, Kareem, Byron Scott, Wilkes, and Norm Nixon while Bird had McHale, Parish, Archibald, Maxwell, and Dennis Johnson to share it with. Now Bird could call for it whenever in clutch situations, but he didn't have the ball 90% of the time like LeBron.

When he chose to. And again ok so theres a second guy. Not a whole team. AGain now adays the average players talent has increased so they gotta share the ball with the no namers more. If Lebron, Kobe,Carmelo,Wade all had the ball as much as Jordan did? Theyd put the same numbers up.

What in the world makes you think players didn't go hard to the rim? Because they didn't dunk hard? Willis Reed, Wilt Chamberlain, Clyde Drexler, James Worthy, Dominique Wilkins, Julius Erving, David Thompson, Darryl Dawkins, Tom Chambers, Isiah Thomas, Kareem, Larry Nance, Connie Hawkins, Darrell Griffith, Elgin Baylor, and Spud Webb couldn't throw it down hard?

I was talking more before teh reactive rim. It wasnt liek Lebron or Dwight going absolute 100% full force to the rim. Yes it is absolutely different.

Magic would be just another guy who is good? Your telling me an extremely hard working 6'8 triple double machine who had perhaps the best court vision ever, great ball handling, great basketball IQ, and a great ability to score when he wanted to would just be another guy? Come on now.

Yes all those plays. Your gonna watch em and tell me all that no look shit he did and all that would continually work in todays league like it did then? no someone would read and steal. Look at how easy they made it look. Not look. Its cause it was easy cause playing scrubs is easy.

Do i have to go down the list of records Dwight broke? Just this year? With his how many remaining years to play? He would ****ing asshole rape those dudes like they were playing lil league ball.

Hes faaaaaar more athletic than they are as well.

I call this Jimmy Hendrix syndrome. As anyone "whos the greatest guitar player in the world."

Answer 98% of the time? Jimmy Hendrix. He WAS. WAS. WAS. the greatest guitar player int he world. I guarantee you there are people now who would melt his freakin brain if he was still alive.

And even that guy will tell you "jimmy hendrix is the greatest" when even he himself is better. And he knows it. But its hte ole "oh respect the old geezers" bullshit.

No. The next generations job is to surpass the previous generation. And its done on a daily basis. And same thing in basketball.

Watching those old clips? Man that shit would catch some D today. On top of that the smaller players would be breakin their old old ankles.

They were the greatest. They arent anymore. GOAT? No such thing exists cause its all opinion. And again those old guys played against less competition.

People today grow up their entire lives playing the game with the sole purpose of being in the NBA.

Hence why some smaller plaeyrs are in. Theyve upped their level of play.
Back then it wasnt as much people playing basketball their whole lives. It was just a tall ass dude and someone said "hey you should play basketball."

Todays players grew up worshiping the game. Not as many old school dudes did IMO.

[jstern]

OK in 2008 Michael Phelps was going trying to beat Mark Spitz' performance of 7 gold medals at a single Olympics. Spitz was obviously a very dominant swimmer, comparable to Phelps, to win 7 gold medals. However, the link below demonstrates how not only do Phelp's times beat Spitz' times by up to almost a third of the pool (14 meters), Phelps usually beat his competition by way less than Spitz beat his competition. So Spitz, as a slower swimmer, was more dominant than a faster Phelps, just because today's competition is steeper.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...n-graphic.html


Running may have a little more relevance to basketball, so found this chart:

Basketball kind of combines distance and sprints in that you need to be a good sprinter with endurance to play the whole game. The distance events, esp the mile show a huge improvement in time. And even though the sprint events may seem very close, when watching it seems like a much bigger difference. For example, I don't know if you watched the 2008 olympic 100m dash with Usain Bolt. But if you did, you'll remember how Bolt DESTROYED his competition-no one was even close to him. But if you look at the gold medal time from 1972 (10.06), that time would not have beaten a SINGLE PERSON Bolt's race. So just remember how far ahead Bolt was from second place, and then go back 6 more places, and your 1972 gold medalist still hasn't finished.
100m dash if you've never seen it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qslbf8L9nl0

Don't mean to sound in your face or anything, I just did these sports throughout high school so I kind of follow them and keep track of times. Humans are just more athletic today, and we have done more research towards perfecting training. I know they're different sports, but if the runners and swimmers of the 60s/70s couldn't compete today, then I don't see how the bball players could. I think the 80s starts the era that the standout players then would be very good if playing in today's league, however I do not think they would be as dominant today as they were then. Obviously we'll never know, just what I think.

My point was that nutrition and stuff like that picked up somewhere in the late 80s, and pretty much half of the records for track and field are in the 90s and 2000s. At the same time when it comes to basketball such small gain is almost meaningless when it comes to the NBA, a sports that's about much more than a 5% or less increase in athleticism. Also one of the big story in the Olympics was the records being broken all of sudden due to the new swimming suits that they were wearing. That was a big story, (probably the biggest story) so when it comes to swimming you have to consider much more than their native abilities. As a younger person sometimes it's hard to give props to older players, simply because the whole world kind of started when we were born. We're ignorant of the past. I remember seeing footage of NBA players lifting weights in the 60 and because of ignorance I can't help but get a little like, "Wow, they had weights back then." It's just ignorance of a younger person when it comes to stuff before their time. Heck, when I was a kid I remember watching I love Lucy and sometimes getting like, "Wow" some of these words that I use everyday are so old. Hard to explain, but I just don't care for the opinion of a person criticizing things that were before their time, especially when it comes to teenagers about basketball.

[BigBalla44]

Yes we get it. The NBA now sucks, and everything in the past was so much better.

Dwight Howard wouldn't even be a top 7 defensive player if he played in the 80's or 90's.

Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and LeBron James would struggle to average 25\5\5 in their primes in the 80's or 90's.

Michael Jordan would average 45 PPG and Bird and Magic would be 30\10\10 in todays league.

The league nowadays isn't as competitive as it used to be, it's soft, and it just sucks.

I have a question for you people who constantly say those things, why do you even bother watching the NBA, if you constantly complain about how bad its gotten?

Why dont you get a reality check and realize your scope of basketball history is limited because never watched any of these players?

Look, I cant speak for some of the other posters here, but I been watching the game since the early 90's and I never shit on the legacy of those before my time and will not necessarily object to anyone saying Bill Russell or KAJ is greater than MJ because they have a case based on facts and I never had the privilege of watching them. You can only debate who's better, but at the end of the day, you will never know who is truly the greatest player or the greatest generation because it's impossible. The greats who have played this game realize this. Why cant you?

However, I can judge the players Ive seen until now and base it on my own judgement. I can say based on talent and potential, LeBron is probably better than any SF I've ever seen. At the same time, I can say John Stockton is miles above Steve Nash at the defensive end and is a more efficient passer (I dont know the stats and I could be wrong, but it appears to be that way).

Just use your f*cking common sense, be objective, and not be so f*cking close-minded to think only the players you watch are the best.

Besides, while I agree that current players are generally more athletic than those in the past, the difference is not as great as you think it is.

[jstern]

Thinking that sports get better every other decade is so biased its not even funny. Some Elements Evolve and Some Elements Devolve...because when you expand the pool of competition you also let in more people that don`t have the capacity to play.

Hence the amount of pathetic rookies seen in the early 2000s.

Divac was a good center but he became an All Star in the 2000s past his prime, that saying the lack of centers of this era.

Cassell? Lord in the 80s he would have stayed a role player for ever as he was in the early-mid 90s.

That's a good point, a lot of players became really good after their prime.

[MasterDurant24]

I am 6'5" and have stood shoulder to shoulder with Jerry West. He is well over 6'1". More like 6'4" as he was always advertised to be.

On Basketball reference he is listed at 6'2.

[HisJoeness]

Why dont you get a reality check and realize your scope of basketball history is limited because never watched any of these players?

Look, I cant speak for some of the other posters here, but I been watching the game since the early 90's and I never shit on the legacy of those before my time and will not necessarily object to anyone saying Bill Russell or KAJ is greater than MJ because they have a case based on facts and I never had the privilege of watching them. You can only debate who's better, but at the end of the day, you will never know who is truly the greatest player or generation because it's impossible. The greatest players in the game realize this. Why cant you?

However, I can judge the players Ive seen until now and base it on my own judgement. I can say based on talent and potential, LeBron is probably better than any SF I've ever seen. At the same time, I can say John Stockton is miles above Steve Nash at the defensive end and is a more efficient passer (I dont know the stats and I could be wrong, but it appears to be that way).

Just use your f*cking common sense, be objective, and not be so f*cking close-minded to think only the players you watch are the best.

Besides, while I agree that currentplayers are generally more athletic than before, the difference is not as great as you think it is.

Thank you.

[bdreason]

The league is obviously deeper today. Arguing over the elite players is a different story though. Todays game lacks the quality back-to-the-basket, defensive bigs that dominated the late 80's and 90's... but there are a lot of really good wing players in todays game. I think it has a lot to do with the MJ effect. After MJ burst onto the scene, everyone wanted to be like Mike (even bigs). Then came a whole generation of wing players and bigs who wanted to face up and attack the rim like Mike, instead of playing more fundamental ball from the post (inside-out). I remember reading a quote from one of the superstars in the league (I think it was Shaq or KG) talking about how playing like a traditional big was considered 'boring'.

[talk at ya]

My point was that nutrition and stuff like that picked up somewhere in the late 80s, and pretty much half of the records for track and field are in the 90s and 2000s. At the same time when it comes to basketball such small gain is almost meaningless when it comes to the NBA, a sports that's about much more than a 5% or less increase in athleticism. Also one of the big story in the Olympics was the records being broken all of sudden due to the new swimming suits that they were wearing. That was a big story, (probably the biggest story) so when it comes to swimming you have to consider much more than their native abilities. As a younger person sometimes it's hard to give props to older players, simply because the whole world kind of started when we were born. We're ignorant of the past. I remember seeing footage of NBA players lifting weights in the 60 and because of ignorance I can't help but get a little like, "Wow, they had weights back then." It's just ignorance of a younger person when it comes to stuff before their time. Heck, when I was a kid I remember watching I love Lucy and sometimes getting like, "Wow" some of these words that I use everyday are so old. Hard to explain, but I just don't care for the opinion of a person criticizing things that were before their time, especially when it comes to teenagers about basketball.

I'm definitely not criticizing the older players. I recognize their accomplishments were great. I think that the best players of today would beat the best players of yesterday one on one. But a huge reason for that is the increase in athleticism, the more precise training, etc...things beyond the control of the older players. Just because I think that the players today are 'better' doesn't mean that they deserve any more praise-they had more help through athletic advances. Similarily, just because the biggest scrub in the NBA right now would probably beat Candace Parker, it doesn't mean I put that scrub in a higher regard than I do Parker.

And I admit-I never watched Bill Russell, or Wilt Chamberlain, and I wasn't alive to see Magic and Bird. And that probably makes my argument less valid. Doesn't mean I can't have my opinion though.

[Fatal9]

What a load of shit Round Mound.

I'm supposed to believe there were better fundamentals in the 60's over the 00's despite not all players in the 60's being able to dribble with their left hand?

That's because they didn't need their left hand. Here is Bob Cousy illustrating how to perform an ankle breaker while dribbling with just one hand:

[BigBalla44]

.

Naw my IQ is 155. Its the layman in here who have it twisted.

Was the IQ test administered by a licensed psychologist or a Facebook quiz?

If you were really that smart, you wouldnt be so absolute regarding the history of the game.

A bias towards the present is just as unreasonable as a bias towards the past.

[MasterDurant24]

[QUOTE=Fatstogie]

Dwight Howard would rape:
Bob McAdoo
Nate Thurmond
Willis Reed
Bill Walton
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Wes Unseld
Elvin Hayes
Artis Gilmore
Spencer Haywood
Caldwell Jones
Bobby Jones
What? Are you smoking crack bro? I wont even look the stat up but id bet that Dwight has the most 3 second violations in the league. And you think the lack of the rule would hurt him? You retarded? He would prefer not to have a 3 second rule. He would bully everyone if he could just stay in the paint.

no they dont. Not even close to the level that MJ magic larry got the ball. NOT EVEN CLOSE. Ive seen Lebron on MANY occasions pissed cause he had to give the ball up.

Naw my IQ is 155. Its the layman in here who have it twisted.

When he chose to. And again ok so theres a second guy. Not a whole team. AGain now adays the average players talent has increased so they gotta share the ball with the no namers more. If Lebron, Kobe,Carmelo,Wade all had the ball as much as Jordan did? Theyd put the same numbers up.

I was talking more before teh reactive rim. It wasnt liek Lebron or Dwight going absolute 100% full force to the rim. Yes it is absolutely different.

Yes all those plays. Your gonna watch em and tell me all that no look shit he did and all that would continually work in todays league like it did then? no someone would read and steal. Look at how easy they made it look. Not look. Its cause it was easy cause playing scrubs is easy.

Do i have to go down the list of records Dwight broke? Just this year? With his how many remaining years to play? He would ****ing asshole rape those dudes like they were playing lil league ball.

Hes faaaaaar more athletic than they are as well.

I call this Jimmy Hendrix syndrome. As anyone "whos the greatest guitar player in the world."

Answer 98% of the time? Jimmy Hendrix. He WAS. WAS. WAS. the greatest guitar player int he world. I guarantee you there are people now who would melt his freakin brain if he was still alive.

And even that guy will tell you "jimmy hendrix is the greatest" when even he himself is better. And he knows it. But its hte ole "oh respect the old geezers" bullshit.

No. The next generations job is to surpass the previous generation. And its done on a daily basis. And same thing in basketball.

Watching those old clips? Man that shit would catch some D today. On top of that the smaller players would be breakin their old old ankles.

They were the greatest. They arent anymore. GOAT? No such thing exists cause its all opinion. And again those old guys played against less competition.

People today grow up their entire lives playing the game with the sole purpose of being in the NBA.

Hence why some smaller plaeyrs are in. Theyve upped their level of play.
Back then it wasnt as much people playing basketball their whole lives. It was just a tall ass dude and someone said "hey you should play basketball."

Todays players grew up worshiping the game. Not as many old school dudes did IMO.

They sure don't seem like they worship the game now except for a select few. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, the ones that worked they ass off, worshipped the game. Plus, what is considered a normal crossover today was carrying about 20 years ago. You couldn't dribble with your hand on the side of the ball, that's one of the reasons the game looks so primitive.

And you think Magic was all about no looks? If it doesn't work, then why do so many guys today try to do it?

And you sound incredibly infantile to have an IQ of 155. Your reasoning of why they would dominate is just pure nonsense. Why is the defense weaker? Magic played a bunch of scrubs? Simply because they played in the 80s? Your just one of those people full of ignorance who thinks that because it's a new decade, that the players are automatically superior. You ignore the fact that guys focused more on fundamentals, or the higher field goal percentages, or the rule changes, or the fact that the top teams were loaded with Hall of Fame/All-Star talent.

And last thing, Dwight Howard way more athletic than Wilt Chamberlain and Willis Reed? Oh hell, to the muthaf**cking naw! You probably haven't even heard of those greats.

[JDKMagic]

[QUOTE=Se

[Micku]

I think a lot of things peaked in the 90s or 80s with entertainment stuff. Video games, sports, wrestling, cartoons, movies, and music!

The mid 00s and above are full of remakes, reality TV, and people reminiscing about the good ole days.

[BallsOut]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that this might be the case. Rap/Hip Hop sucks today. Lil Wayne, soulja boy, justin bieber and the rest of the main stream sh1t is wack. I wish I grew up in the 90s with nas, pac, mos def, and the rest of em. Basketball was also a lot more competitive back then. People were actually allowed to play defense. Today you can touch a guy like Lebron (and sometimes don't have to touch him), and he's going to the ft line.

[Rizko]

[QUOTE=MasterDurant24]

They sure don't seem like they worship the game now except for a select few. Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, the ones that worked they ass off, worshipped the game. Plus, what is considered a normal crossover today was carrying about 20 years ago. You couldn't dribble with your hand on the side of the ball, that's one of the reasons the game looks so primitive.

And you think Magic was all about no looks? If it doesn't work, then why do so many guys today try to do it?

And you sound incredibly infantile to have an IQ of 155. Your reasoning of why they would dominate is just pure nonsense. Why is the defense weaker? Magic played a bunch of scrubs? Simply because they played in the 80s? Your just one of those people full of ignorance who thinks that because it's a new decade, that the players are automatically superior. You ignore the fact that guys focused more on fundamentals, or the higher field goal percentages, or the rule changes, or the fact that the top teams were loaded with Hall of Fame/All-Star talent.

And last thing, Dwight Howard way more athletic than Wilt Chamberlain and Willis Reed? Oh hell, to the muthaf**cking naw! You probably haven't even heard of those greats.

Your pick in the NBA draft