Playoffs Dirk or Bird who u got

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

for career

[IncarceratedBob]

Bird is literally better at everything

[Cold soul]

Larry Bird.

[dr.hee]

Bird is literally better at everything

Bird is better, but not literally at everything.

[navy]

Dirk had one run, and let's face it Lebron choked.

Bird. Then again, his teams were STACKED. Nope, still Bird. He is just better.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Dirk had one run, and let's face it Lebron choked.

Bird. Then again, his teams were STACKED. Nope, still Bird. He is just better.

His opposition was stacked too.

[ArbitraryWater]

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...t=1127633&f=64

The more I look at Dirk and Bird's careers, the more I think you can make the case that Dirk is > Bird. Just look at Bird's long list of playoff failures while Dirk improves his play in the postseason:

1980- Averaged a .511 TS% in the postseason. In game 5 vs. the Sixers, he shot poorly, 5-19 with just 12 points, as the Celtics lost the game. His man (Dr. J) averaged 25 PPG in this series. His team loses in 5 games despite having HCA and winning 61 games. Had a 18.3 PER in the postseason

1981- Has a .532 TS% in the postseason. He had a bad finals where he averaged just 15 PPG on .419 shooting and .460 TS%.

1982- PPG average dropped from 22.9 PPG to 17.8 PPG. He has an embarrassing .474 TS% in the playoffs. He averaged a pedestrian 18.3 PPG against the Sixers. Averages 17 PPG in the final 2 games of the series. The Celtics lose again with HCA. The Celtics won 63 games and had the #1 SRS in the league. Has a 17.9 PER in the postseason.

1983- The Celtics get swept by the Bucks. The Celtics win 56 games and had the #2 SRS in the league and lose again with HCA. Bird plays awful again. .478 TS%. His PPG average drops 2 PPG in the playoffs. Bird missed a game in the series but that game happened to be the closest one (Celtics lose by 4). In the 3 other games, the Celtics lose by 14.3 PPG with Bird on the court.

1984- Great playoffs. Averaged 27-14-4 in the Finals and had a .607 TS% in the playoffs. First great playoff of his career. Celtics win the title over the Lakers.

1985- Celtics make the finals, but Bird's numbers drop in the playoffs. His PPG drops by 2.8 PPG, Reb by 1.2 Reb, and AST by 0.7 AST. Had an average .536 TS% in the postseason. Bird plays even worse in the finals. His PPG dropped 4.9 PPG, his Reb 1.7 Reb, and AST by 1.6 AST in the finals compared to his regular season average. His Finals TS% is just .527. Not only that, but Celtics finish with 63 wins and lose once again with HCA a constant theme in Bird's career. This is the first time in Celtics history they lost in the finals with HCA.

1986- Great year. His best year ever. Wins the title. .615 TS% in the postseason and amazing finals.

1987- I think this is his most admirable playoffs up until the finals. The Celtics were quite banged up this year. Averaged 27-10-7 in the postseason with .577 TS%. Though his numbers in the finals dropped off once again. His PPG was 3.9 PPG down from the regular season, AST down by 2.1 AST and his TS% was just .534. In game 6, Bird scored just 16 points on 6-16 (.375) shooting. In the final 3 games of this series, Bird averaged just 20 PPG on .377 shooting and .492 TS% with 3.7 TOV. This is the first time Bird has played without HCA in the playoffs and his team loses.

1988- Bird's PPG drops by 5.4 PPG, Reb by 0.5 Reb. Bird shoots an awful 40-114 (.351) against the Pistons. Has a mediocre .538 TS% and 20.2 PER in the playoffs. The Celtics had HCA and the #1 SRS in the league and you probably guessed what happened next, Larry Bird loses with HCA once again.

1989- Injured doesn't play in the postseason.

1990- Bird shoots .539 TS% and has 3.6 TOV as the Celtics once again you guessed it, lose with HCA.

1991- In the first round, his team needs to go 5 vs. the 41 win Pacers. His PPG drop by 2.3 PPG and his Rebounds and Assists also drop quite a bit. Has a .490 TS% 15.8 PER in the playoffs. Against the Pistons Bird averages 13.4 PPG on .446 TS%. His 56 win team played with you guessed it HCA and loses with it.

1992- Doesn't play in the first round as the Celtics sweep the Pacers. In round 2, his team goes 7 against the Cavs, but Bird plays in 4 games and his team was 1-3 in those games. Averages a pathetic 11.3 PPG and 4.5 Reb which are 8.4 PPG and 5.2 Reb down from his regular season average. He has a .514 TS% and 16.4 PER in the postseason.


So out of 12 years, you get 9 years under .540 TS%, 5 under .520 TS%, and 3 under .500 TS%. From 80-83, he had a 19.9 playoff PER. In that span, Johnny Moore, Franklin Edwards, Gus Williams, and Bob Lanier all had better playoff PER and WS/48. Teammates Parish, McHale, Tiny Archibald, and Cedric Maxwell had better TS% in that span. From 88-92, he had a 18.8 PER which is 25th among players with 10 playoff games played. Players who had better playoff PER's in that span include Fat Lever, Terry Cummings, Roy Tarpley, Cedric Ceballos, and Sarunas Marciulionis. His teammates Reggie Lewis and Kevin McHale had better playoff PER's in that span.

With Bird you get a nice 4 year run that had 4 straight finals appearances but outside of that you get a 4 year span of .505 TS% (80-83) and a .525 TS% span (88-92). In 12 years, you get 7 losses with HCA. Basically out of Bird's 13 year career, you have 1 injury season and 3 non-descript postseasons at the end of his plus some playoff disappointments early in his career.

May take Dirk I don't see what's so outrageous about it... Now if Dirk continues to play at this elite level for damn near 20 Years?

[Done_And_Done]

Love the Diggler but Larry Legend for moi please...

[riseagainst]

didn't Bird out-rebound Moses Malone in the finals?
just saying.

There are other things Bird can do and did that contributed to the team other than scoring.

Dirk is probably a better pure scorer than Bird, but even then, just barely. Bird is better at rebounding and playmaking/passing, especially off the ball...

Love Dirk, but I'd take Bird.

[Harison]

Lets just say every.single.GM would pick Bird over Dirk (Cuban including), same with any fan (non-homer).

[Akrazotile]

Bird is literally better at everything

Now, we know that they are at the very least equal as three point shooters. Then you say to yourself, well Dirk is a PF so he draws a bigger defender away from the basket. So you say, well ok, why is that important? Well mainly because it creates more difficult defensive positioning for the opponent.


Now look, I don't care about playoff records and rings. It's a team game and I'm not one of the retards incapable of separating teams from individuals. We know Larry Bird was a greater play maker, mainly because, he was a greater playmaker. But Dirk is a more lethal scorer, come on now. And it's hard to deny the kind of matchup problems he creates in the modern game. So you say to yourself, well what's the verdict?

The verdict is, it's a pick em. There is no right or wrong answer to this question.

[zoom17]

Bird it sucks he had back problems later in his career.

[DirkNowitzki07]

Dirk of course

Give him Parish, Kevin McHale, Dennis Johnson, Danny Ainge, Bill Walton and he'll get you a couple of rings too

It's funny how the greatest players in the history of the game had at least another star on their team when they won the title. But yet Dirk had to do it with a washed up Kidd, an old Jason Terry, and an injured Caron Butler.

Tim Duncan has Ginobili, Parker and had Robinson.
Bird had Parish, Dennis Johnson, Kevin McHale.
Lebron has Wade, Bosh
Shaq had Kobe
Jordan had Pippen, Rodman,



What did Dirk ever have that came close to those types of players?

[DMAVS41]

Bird for sure.

Closer than people think though.

If it's about who "stepped up" their game more in the playoffs compared to the regular season...then it's Dirk, but Bird wins out as the better player.

The harsh truth for Dirk fans here is that Bird playing at 90% of his optimal is still better than Dirk playing at or near his optimal level. Just the truth.

Props to Dirk for being one of what I would imagine a select few that saw his scoring, rebounding, and assists go up or remain constant while also slightly improving his overall scoring efficiency.

Dirk got better than normal in the playoffs given that he played more minutes and played against better competition and increased his outputs across the board.

But that isn't enough to pass Bird...like I said above, Bird was just the better player...and even with Bird not playing at his optimal level...he was still just better than Dirk overall.

Not a blowout here or anything tough...Dirk's individual play in the playoffs is extremely under-rated here.

[fpliii]

Bird, but both are top 10 playoff performers all-time. Each had to go through a super tough conference (80s East and 00s West).