So with Lebron being the GOAT and MJ 2nd greatest of all time, who is your 3rd?

[AlternativeAcc.]

This right here is why its best I dont even interact with posters clearly born in the mid to late 90s.....



Im gonna just say peace and god bless....

Was Duncan ever considered the best for a decade straight like LeBron?

or was he the best for a few years at most, like many of the other players people try to prop up over LeBron all-time due to things like rings and lucky circumstances

['Toine=MVP]

6 rings as the man > 2

Kareem wasn't in the goat conversation until the last year or two, when it's become convenient to use him to take away MJ's goat title, thus propping up lebron

Before the last couple years, no one talked about Kareem as goat, except the occasional ex-teammate, but most of them like magic said MJ was goat

Ultimately, Kareem only won 2-3 rings as the man, and trails MJ by wide margins statistically in per game raw stats, and also advanced stats.. there is no case for kareem

This. All of this.

Plus it is way too easily overlooked how for much of his peak (which was his first few years in the league really), he was playing in the second best professional basketball league. The ABA was clearly better at the time. It is sort of like the Eastern Conference vs the West of the last decade or so. Sure, some EC team have won, but no one would argue the overall competition/path to a conference title was close at all.

Kareem should have been winning and coming close to winning a lot more early on. Losing to that 70s Celtics team in the "Finals" was ok I guess. Lost the round before that the previous year to a pretty so-so looking team and Kareem only managed to average 22 Pts a game that losing series. Somehow an aging/declining Oscar Robertson averaged almost as many. And in Kareem's final year with the Bucks, right in his peak, they had a sub .500 season. In the weaker league (imagine if LeBron finished sub .500 in the East! - we can give him a small break if he does that in the West this year like Kobe did).

He finished sub .500 again with the Lakers the year after that. The year after that, he actually made the playoffs but was swept in the then 2nd round which was the conference finals (Portland was a really good that won the finals that year in the post merger NBA and Kareem did put up some serious numbers, so not that bad I guess). The following year, lost 1-2 in the opening round (had a young pre-prime Dantley on that team and Jamal Wilkes who was pretty good). Then lost again in the 2nd round (to the eventual champion at least).

After that the Lakers added Magic and the organization started winning. Kareem still had some decent lower end peak-ish years with the Lakers before finishing out well post-peak. And won 5 more titles. But he was already 32 that first year with Magic.

I think the hook was pretty unstoppable of course and if you count college performance in your greatest rankings, that might get Kareem in the top 5 maybe, but the resume doesn't look all that great. And he was considered weak at the time too, unlike Wilt who didn't win at all in his peak. Really can't put Kareem over Wilt. You could maybe put Kareem over Russell if you think the talent gap was really big. I think the talent gap was big enough probably. But I could see the case for Russell over Kareem too. But you have to put MJ and Bird over him. You have to put Shaq over him. Magic is a weird case because man those skills might not translate super well across eras, but Magic's legacy is greater. LeBron should probably be rated more highly as well. Kareem has a very good case over Duncan and Hakeem though (the two other consensus top 10 greatest). Duncan did more winning in his prime, but Kareem was clearly the superior talent and if you just want to play the ring count game, Kareem still beats him, plus while both had great college careers, Kareem's was legendary. Hakeem...yeah I don't think there's much of a case.

[Kblaze8855]

Funny how time changes things. Kareem on ISH getting roasted over his teams record in a season he was voted MVP...by the other players. He puts up 28/17/5 with 4 blocks and 2 steals a game. Apparently...his peers were quite impressed regardless of how his team did. I suspect they had reason to be.

[rmt]

Most of what you mention is heavily reliant on teammates/franchises/lucky circumstances

Lebron, of all the consensus top 10 GOAT, has switched franchises, had more input in team mates, more freedom of team movement than any of them and STILL you use that as a positive? That's a BIG negative for Lebron. The others weren't flitting all over the league, colluding with other stars, recruiting team mates, etc - they mostly stayed where they were, stuck through thick and thin, developed their players, etc.

[bullettooth]

Lebron, of all the consensus top 10 GOAT, has switched franchises, had more input in team mates, more freedom of team movement than any of them and STILL you use that as a positive? That's a BIG negative for Lebron. The others weren't flitting all over the league, colluding with other stars, recruiting team mates, etc - they mostly stayed where they were, stuck through thick and thin, developed their players, etc.

Even when he's tried taking shortcuts, he's still lost.. and lost in embarrassing record fashion.

Too many black marks on LeBron's resume.

[And1AllDay]

I go Magic because Kareem only has 2 FMVPs. But I'm a Lakers fan so a little biased that ol' Kareem was a Buck first.

[Marchesk]

I go Magic because Kareem only has 2 FMVPs. But I'm a Lakers fan so a little biased that ol' Kareem was a Buck first.

[And1AllDay]

1. LeBron
2. Jordan
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Shaq
7. Russell
8. Wilt
9. Bird
10. Hakeem
11. Erving
12. Kobe
13. KG
14. Drob
15. West

Wow..Nearly spot on...Amazing list

[And1AllDay]

Sorry for being honest

Now go YouTube some MJ dunks over 6'2 illegal zone defensive schemes

[bullettooth]

I go Magic because Kareem only has 2 FMVPs. But I'm a Lakers fan so a little biased that ol' Kareem was a Buck first.

NO YOU'RE NOT!

[Akrazotile]

NO YOU'RE NOT!

Gee, lemme guess, you think Im an “alt” because I happen to like both Lebron and the Lakers.

How original

['Toine=MVP]

Funny how time changes things. Kareem on ISH getting roasted over his teams record in a season he was voted MVP...by the other players. He puts up 28/17/5 with 4 blocks and 2 steals a game. Apparently...his peers were quite impressed regardless of how his team did. I suspect they had reason to be.

Yeah he was the best player in the 2nd best league at the time. But that doesn't make him the 2nd best player of all time!

[StrongLurk]

MJ, Kareem, Lebron - those are the top 3, in order.

Too hard for me to rank Wilt or Russell with any kind of standard since basketball and the NBA back then was basically 95% different then it is now.

If you want to rank them, then idk HOW they aren't considered the two best players ever because Wilt owns half the NBA records and Bill Russell has 11 rings (and probably 8-9 FMVPS as well if the award existed back then).

[ballinhun8]

[QUOTE=Akrazotile]Gee, lemme guess, you think Im an

[72-10]

Funny how time changes things. Kareem on ISH getting roasted over his teams record in a season he was voted MVP...by the other players. He puts up 28/17/5 with 4 blocks and 2 steals a game. Apparently...his peers were quite impressed regardless of how his team did. I suspect they had reason to be.

Kareem won MVP one year when his team didn't even make the playoffs - '76, I think. He was a beast statistically. I don't know, though, people have put together a lot of footage of Kareem getting dunked on over his career, especially as skill level picked up in the 1980s, but he was old then, and what would anyone expect after 50 thousand friggin minutes?