08 Celtics BARELY beat the 08 Cavs

[tpols]

Bulls won more regular season games for a few reasons.. eastern conference trending up in the cavs case strength wise while trending down in roses especially with the dilution of depth due to the collusion.. Rose going bonkers with revolving door of teammates.. having an unreal clutch season..

Both had great defensive and rebounding supporting casts completely devoid of offensive talent. Both supporting casts gave their star help at the most critical time against their hardest competition.. hell brons team even extended it further.

Just... wrong. So wrong.so so so wrongg

[ArbitraryWater]

Bulls won more regular season games for a few reasons.. eastern conference trending up in the cavs case strength wise while trending down in roses especially with the dilution of depth due to the collusion.. Rose going bonkers with revolving door of teammates.. having an unreal clutch season..

Both had great defensive and rebounding supporting casts completely devoid of offensive talent. Both supporting casts gave their star help at the most critical time against their hardest competition.. hell brons team even extended it further.

Just... wrong. So wrong.

If you're trying to say they had similar help, you're basically saying 2011 Rose > 2008 LeBron, you realize that, right?

Just.... wrong. So wrong.

[Akhenaten]

Lebron played that bad because of boston.. that's why they were so great. Their defense. They would do the same thing to superstars of today.

No doubt about it, didnt help that BRAWN had no one to take the pressure off offensively even though Delonte played pretty well, my point that Boston team isn't nearly as great as most of you make it out to be.

Reason being that for as great as they were defensively they were pretty mediocre on O, they beat that Cleveland team avg 80 ppg for the series. Now, while that Cleveland team played excellent defense 80 points is pretty putrid, if they play the 11 Heat, 15 Warriors, 12 Heat, 13 Heat, 14 Spurs etc. 80 PPG AINT GON CUT IT PERIOD.

you can hold the 08 Hawks, 08 Cavs etc to under 80 ppg not happening with the teams I mentioned above. I cant imagine a scenario where they beat those teams.

[tpols]

If you're trying to say they had similar help, you're basically saying 2011 Rose > 2008 LeBron, you realize that, right?

Just.... wrong. So wrong.

Regular season? Rose was on some all time carrying shit with rat tag in and out group just like bron except in an even more diluted conference.

I don't have enough L's to hand out so you will have to wait for yours.

[DMAVS41]

Bulls won more regular season games for a few reasons.. eastern conference trending up in the cavs case strength wise while trending down in roses especially with the dilution of depth due to the collusion.. Rose going bonkers with revolving door of teammates.. having an unreal clutch season..

Both had great defensive and rebounding supporting casts completely devoid of offensive talent. Both supporting casts gave their star help at the most critical time against their hardest competition.. hell brons team even extended it further.

Just... wrong. So wrong.so so so wrongg

Well....no real response at all.

So they had similar help....yet one team had the best defense in the league and the other couldn't crack the top 10.


Bulls without Rose on the court? +6.1 points per 100
Cavs without Lebron on the court? -8.5 points per 100


You used to be a decent poster man, but now you are just awful. Just give it up.

[ArbitraryWater]

Regular season? Rose was on some all time carrying shit with rat tag in and out group just like bron except in an even more diluted conference.

I don't have enough L's to hand out so you will have to wait for yours.

I dont see any huge difference between those conferences... and why would LeBron's postseason give him a significant edge here?

Just come out, follow through with your logic and say 2011 Rose > 2008 LeBron

[DMAVS41]

Regular season? Rose was on some all time carrying shit with rat tag in and out group just like bron except in an even more diluted conference.

I don't have enough L's to hand out so you will have to wait for yours.

Just going to keep posting this:

Bulls without Rose on the court? +6.1 points per 100
Cavs without Lebron on the court? -8.5 points per 100

[tpols]

Just going to keep posting this:

Bulls without Rose on the court? +6.1 points per 100
Cavs without Lebron on the court? -8.5 points per 100

Better bench.. cool.

I like to evaluate the other 80% of help too.. ya know, the starters?

You can't explain anything out.. a contextless number is all your reduced to. Can't refute both were defensive and rebounding specialist supporting casts with similar voids of offensive talent. Can't refute brons stepped up just as much if not more when he needed them too.Can't refute taking yet another L

[DMAVS41]

Better bench.. cool.

I like to evaluate the other 80% of help too.. ya know, the starters?

You can't explain anything out.. a contextless number is all your reduced to. Can't refute both were defensive and rebounding specialist supporting casts with similar voids of offensive talent. Can't refute brons stepped up just as much if not more when he needed them too.Can't refute taking yet another L

That isn't just bench. It's about how a team performs when a player is off the court...that doesn't mean it's all bench players. Starters play with non starters all the time...you get that right?

I can refute everything...the Cavs weren't even a great defensive team you idiot. They were great on the glass, but they weren't this beast of a team on defense. I don't know what the **** you are talking about...and neither do you.

To add to that...the Cavs defense roughly stayed the same with Lebron off the court. When Rose left...the defense got much better.


Want to evaluate how the starters did?

Okay....

With Rose on the court? +8.8 points per 100
With Lebron on the court? +2.4 points per 100




Absolutely nothing supports those two teams as being similar at all in strength.

16 less wins...way worse on both sides of the ball. Way worse scoring differential with best player on and off the court...etc.

[tpols]

That isn't just bench. It's about how a team performs when a player is off the court...that doesn't mean it's all bench players. Starters play with non starters all the time...you get that right?

I can refute everything...the Cavs weren't even a great defensive team you idiot. They were great on the glass, but they weren't this beast of a team on defense. I don't know what the **** you are talking about...and neither do you.

To add to that...the Cavs defense roughly stayed the same with Lebron off the court. When Rose left...the defense got much better.


Want to evaluate how the starters did?

Okay....

With Rose on the court? +8.8 points per 100
With Lebron on the court? +2.4 points per 100




Absolutely nothing supports those two teams as being similar at all in strength.

16 less wins...way worse on both sides of the ball. Way worse scoring differential with best player on and off the court...etc.

So rose got more out his cast than bron did.. raised his teammates games. Had Keith bogans starting every game as his backcourt mate. A guy you never heard of before that and haven't heard of since. Front court decimated.. ancient Kurt Thomas starting half the season.

But rose contextually stepped.. outplayed most other stars, won a bunch of close games by himself and kept the team together through all the injuries and changes.


And then got less help against his toughest competition.. oh well.

[ArbitraryWater]

tpols you've lost it.. try to mark off legit stats as simply 'oh better bench doe who cares'...

[DMAVS41]

So rose got more out his cast than bron did.. raised his teammates games. Had Keith bogans starting every game as his backcourt mate. A guy you never heard of before that and haven't heard of since. Front court decimated.. ancient Kurt Thomas starting half the season.

But rose contextually stepped.. outplayed most other stars, won a bunch of close games by himself and kept the team together through all the injuries and changes.


And then got less help against his toughest competition.. oh well.

So your take away is that Rose was worth roughly 16 more wins and 6 points per 100 possessions more than Lebron?



NBA RAPM....the number you love to use

11 Rose ....2.2
08 Lebron....6.4

Lebron was 5th in the league
Rose was 42nd in the league

Take that L

[tpols]

tpols you've lost it.. try to mark off legit stats as simply 'oh better bench doe who cares'...

Rose played all but 10 minutes a game.. it's a sliver of the action.. it's very nice to have a capable bench, but it's not some worthy thing to post. It's like 20% of meaningful action maybe less if you count what bench is doing in blowouts. But that's dmavs for ya

[Jacks3]

They were coasting, Celtics were one of few teams who could turn it on at will, and they did.

.

[tpols]

If you go by wins in the regular season for help 09 and 10 lebron had massive amounts of help. Thing is that defensive and rebounding help doesn't translate well to the playoffs.

Wanna talk wins for help.. what was kobes help on the early 2000 lakers when he was winning less rs games than roses team did? Is Kurt Thomas lol Deng and Carlos boozer worth a prime shaq? lol..

What was dirks help in 07 when his team won even more than roses?

This argument will work for you about as well as posting some more bench stats

So your take away is that Rose was worth roughly 6 points per 100 possessions more than Lebron?

It used to be "hey man, who do you think was better that season?" Now basketball convo is the above...