Hakeem Olajuwon > Magic Johnson

[IMObjective]

Bird

Bias

maybe, I have to think long and hard about it

deflection of bias accusations



Personally, I don't think it should be about breaking down offense and defense and the subcategories in each, but rather just about overall impact, and Magic had plenty of that.

1991 NBA Finals team

Magic, Worthy, Byron, Perkins, Divac, Green, and etc

pretty good, nothing too special, NO kareem (not to mention kareem was way past his prime for a major portion of his Laker years), and a new coach

Worthy was pretty good, but this team was all Magic.

edit: oh yeah, on topic, I am a big hakeem fan too, don't like these player a>player b comparisons, especially when their impact is so close, and it really depends on the team situation to say player a>player b

[Sarcastic]

I dont think you understand how important defense is

No one was a better defensive anchor in the history of the league than Hakeem

I have Hakeem #6 all time, Magic #8

People forget how dominant this mother****er was on defense.

[FKAri]

Dude weighed less than Vince Carter...jus sayin.

[ClipperRevival]

Hakeem is by far my favorite all time big but just no. Being the superior player isn't just about stats, it's about winning. Magic won about as much as anyone outside of a few. He went to 9 finals in 11 years and won 5 of them, all against all time, elite teams.

You can't measure leadership, unselfishness, charisma, etc. He had the "it" factor and was Showtime. Without him, the Lakers probably win ZERO rings in the 80's.

[game3524]

Hakeem is the most overrated all-time great on this forum.

Magic was the better player, he is one of the few players(not even MJ can make this claim...) that you can put bums around him and still manage to win 50 games every year.

[swagga]

Magic Johnson is generally ranked higher than Hakeem Ojajuwon on all-time greatest lists but Hakeem was a better player. Worlds better on defense and quite frankly better on offense except for passing.

The only players who should rank ahead of Hakeem all time are Jordan, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, and (maybe, I have to think long and hard about it) Bird.

Players like Magic, Duncan, Kobe, Shaq, and LeBron should not outrank Hakeem because they had (except LeBron) more team success. Maybe Shaq due to his sheer dominance but if I had to pick I'd rank Hakeem higher.

I mean, imagine the Showtime Lakers with Hakeem instead of Magic:

c/pf - Kareem/Hakeem, with McAdoo/Rambis or Green/Thompson backing up
sf - Worthy
sg - Scott/Cooper
pg - some guy off the street

quite easy for someone who seen them play:
hakeem was a melo-sized black hole on offense. The whole showtime wouldn't exist, and all these player's strengths wouldn't be used... still a good team on talent alone, but nowhere near showtime levels.

[stalkerforlife]

You can definitely make an argument for Hakeem over Magic.

Hakeem won back to back titles with the worst supporting cast in the history of any repeat title team. Kobe's was second worst.

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem is the most overrated all-time great on this forum.

Magic was the better player, he is one of the few players(not even MJ can make this claim...) that you can put bums around him and still manage to win 50 games every year.

Right. Magic dragged those bum teams consisting of James Worthy, Byron Scott, Norm Nixon and Kareem ****ing Abdul-Jabbar kicking and screaming to titles. Also with a terrible coach in Pat ****ing Riley, right?

[game3524]

quite easy for someone who seen them play:
hakeem was a melo-sized black hole on offense. The whole showtime wouldn't exist, and all these player's strengths wouldn't be used... still a good team on talent alone, but nowhere near showtime levels.

Yeah, people tend to forget that Hakeem was seen as a bit of selfish headcase until the early 90s.

Switch him with Magic on those 80s teams and Lakers aren't winning anything.

[K Xerxes]

Hakeem is by far my favorite all time big but just no. Being the superior player isn't just about stats, it's about winning. Magic won about as much as anyone outside of a few. He went to 9 finals in 11 years and won 5 of them, all against all time, elite teams.

You can't measure leadership, unselfishness, charisma, etc. He had the "it" factor and was Showtime. Without him, the Lakers probably win ZERO rings in the 80's.

You also can't measure how good your team mates are, but that doesn't mean you should ignore it. And obviously Magic had far superior team mates to Hakeem in his career. Context matters

[Sarcastic]

You can definitely make an argument for Hakeem over Magic.

Hakeem won back to back titles with the worst supporting cast in the history of any repeat title team. Kobe's was second worst.

Meh. Drexler > Dumars or anyone that Isiah had, and in 1994 Hakeem's teammates were better than Ewing's.

[ShaqTwizzle]

Yeah, people tend to forget that Hakeem was seen as a bit of selfish headcase until the early 90s.

Switch him with Magic on those 80s teams and Lakers aren't winning anything.

Oh yeah, for sure.
I mean it isn't like Hakeem led his team to the Finals in his 2nd year (1986) and beat the Magic led Laker's while doing so.

Just a blackhole headcase.
Wouldn't have even made the playoffs on those stacked Laker teams let alone the early 80's LAL teams that still had a Prime Kareem.

[ArbitraryWater]

Meh. Drexler > Dumars or anyone other than Isiah had, and in 1994 Hakeem's teammates were better than Ewing's.

Because Starks laid an egg maybe...

as a whole Isiah's supporting cast was far better why only go to the next best player and stop there

Thing is, a peak Hakeem was jobbed in '93, they tied the Bulls H2H that year, and likely would have given them the most trouble out of any finals opponent.

[game3524]

Right. Magic dragged those bum teams consisting of James Worthy, Byron Scott, Norm Nixon and Kareem ****ing Abdul-Jabbar kicking and screaming to titles. Also with a terrible coach in Pat ****ing Riley, right?

Go look at the 1991 Lakers team, that wasn't a very good team. They had no business getting to the finals(Portland was not only the favorite to win the west that year, but the title.). But they upset them due to Magic's brilliant play(particularly when it comes to controlling the pace).

I mean the same Lakers squad becomes a treadmill team the minute Magic retires(record of 43-39 in 1992).

[ClipperRevival]

You also can't measure how good your team mates are, but that doesn't mean you should ignore it. And obviously Magic had far superior team mates to Hakeem in his career. Context matters

Talent alone doesn't guarantee anything. Lakers had talent before Magic arrived. But he brought that winning attitude and the "it" factor and changed the culture of the franchise both on and off the court. He was just a winner.