Players with 25 FGA and 45%+ FG

[3ball]

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[COLOR="Red"]Efficiency at high volume - players with 25+ FGA and 45% FG [/COLOR]


Regular Season:

Michael Jordan: 1987, 1993
Rick Barry:[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 1967, 1975
Bob McAdoo:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 1975
George Gervin:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 1982
Kobe Bryant:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 2006
Elgin Baylor:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 1963
Tiny Archibald:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 1973
Dominique:[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 1988


Playoffs (10 game min):

*Michael Jordan:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 1988, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1997, 1998
Elgin Baylor:[COLOR="White"]..........[/COLOR] 1960, 1961, 1968
Bob McAdoo:[COLOR="White"]..........[/COLOR] 1974, 1975
George Gervin:[COLOR="White"].......[/COLOR] 1975, 1982
Jerry West:[COLOR="White"]............[/COLOR] 1966
Rick Barry:[COLOR="White"]............[/COLOR] 1977
Hakeem Olajuwon:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 1995
Kobe Bryant:[COLOR="White"]..........[/COLOR] 2007
Dominique:[COLOR="White"]............[/COLOR] 1988
Allen Iverson:[COLOR="White"].........[/COLOR] 2005
Kareem Jabbar:[COLOR="White"]......[/COLOR] 1975


* Averaged 25.1 FGA and 48.7 FG% for his playoff career


[COLOR="Navy"]Notice that Lebron is not on the list[/COLOR] - the 2015 playoffs were Lebron's first high volume playoffs and we saw what happened when the high volume (27 fga) forced him to stray from his normal diet of 3-pointers and layups - he shot an abysmal 41%.. Unfortunately, Lebron has poor efficiency at the additional midrange and isolations required of high volume shooting, so he can't shoot well at high volume or require a double-team to PREVENT high volume.

In the Finals, he only shot 39% - it benefited the Warriors every time he shot, so they encouraged his high volume by not double-teaming.. They only double-teamed him 18 times in the entire Finals (see 3rd paragraph in section on Curry for double-teaming data).. Compare that to MJ, where his efficient high volume caused teams to double-team him 10+ times in a single quarter, as a standard - teams couldn't afford high volume from Jordan, since it was accompanied by high efficiency too..

But the REAL holy grail of basketball skill is far greater than controlling pace with high volume like Lebron, or adding good efficiency to the high volume like MJ.. The real holy grail is good efficiency at high volume [COLOR="Navy"]while winning championships[/COLOR] because the efficient high volume must be achieved within the team concept.. Only 2 players have reached this holy grail of basketball skill (25 shot attempts on 45% during a championship playoff run): MJ did it 4 times (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem once (1995).. Ultimately, their elite midrange efficiency allowed them to shoot well at high volume.

Now lets look at Lebron - wouldn't it be nice for Lebron to score 20% more on better efficiency????... Isn't that what any fan would want of their favorite player??.. Well that's what Jordan DID (see the stats below).

If Kobe or Lebron could shoot a higher volume at the same efficiency - they would... But they can't - only Jordan is capable of maintaining the same efficiency at very high volume:


Per 100 Possessions in Playoffs:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk.. [COLOR="green"]32.5 fga.. 48.7 fg.. 56.8 ts.. 118 ORtg[/COLOR]
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk.. [COLOR="Navy"]26.8 fga.. 47.3 fg.. 56.5 ts.. 114 ORtg[/COLOR]
KOBE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk.. [COLOR="Navy"]27.7 fga.. 44.8 fg.. 54.1 ts.. 110 ORtg[/COLOR]
WADE:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk.. [COLOR="Navy"]24.5 fga.. 47.8 fg.. 55.4 ts.. 108 ORtg[/COLOR]


Considering the #2 thru #4 guys are between 32 and 36 points, you'd think the #1 guy would be at 37 or 38... But MJ is at 43.3 points, which far above the pack and in another tier - MJ simply did more (higher volume) while still maintaining equal or better efficiency.
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[r15mohd]

and the agenda continues

[Nikola_]

3ball doing more damage to mj than lebon & cowbe stanbase combined

[3ball]

3ball doing more damage to mj than lebon & cowbe stanbase combined

By showing Jordan is BY FAR the most efficient, high volume shooter in history?

And by showing Jordan and Hakeem were the only players to reach the holy grail of basketball skill: achieving high efficiency at high volume WHILE WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP?.. MJ did it 4 times, while Hakeem did it once.
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[GIF REACTION]

Notice how many older era players qualify for this? This is due to the current rules at the time, partiularly Illegal defense, and the restriction it put on defenses guarding isolation and post up plays. Despite a lack of 3pt shooting in the era, team offenses were afforded spacing via the rules of Illegal Defenses. Team-mates simply had to position themselves (similar to how actual 3pt shooters position themselves to create spacing) to open up the lane. The rules were very restrictive on double teaming, and the means by which they could be done.

Rule Enforced Spacing
Rule Enforced Spacing relates to the offensive floor spacing teams achieved during the Illegal Defense period (1981-2001)

1981 - Illegal Defense Guidelines put in place to [COLOR="Red"]increase scoring and open up the paint[/COLOR]
Passage from Bill Simmons' (Globally known NBA analyst, well respected publically) book
[QUOTE]The new wave of coaches made defenses sophisticated enough by 1981 that [B][COLOR="Red"]the league created an

[Gileraracer]

That guy Jordan must be GAWD

[3ball]

Rule Enforced Spacing

[COLOR="Red"]Which rule specifically enforced spacing?[/COLOR]... In your gif, defenders HAVEN'T followed shooters to the 3-point line - they're sagging off, just like today's game, so the old rules didn't provide any more spacing than today's rules do.. And all of your gifs were like this, with the defenders sagging off the 3-point shooters, just like today's game.

So which rules EXACTLY are forcing defenders to follow shooters out to the 3-point line?.. Nothing of course - there's never been any such thing.. Man-to-man defenders have always been allowed to sag off their man.. The Illegal Defense Guidelines didn't change that - defenders could sag off 3-point shooters all the way to the edge of the paint, and they could dip into the paint for up to 3 seconds, just like today's game:

2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than [COLOR="Blue"]2.9 seconds[/COLOR]. When a weakside offensive player is above the tip of the circle, his defensive man must be no lower than the "upper defensive area" for more than [COLOR="Blue"]2.9 seconds[/COLOR].

The full Illegal Defense Guidelines from the NBA rule book found [COLOR="Blue"]here[/COLOR], also shown at realgm here

Man-to-man defenders have ALWAYS been allowed to sag off their man.. The only time in history when defenders weren't allowed to sag off their man is today's paint defenders, who must remain with "armslength" of their man to remain in the 16 x 19 foot painted area.. "Armslength" (about 3 feet) is the strictest defense possible outside of having defenders stand shoulder-to-shoulder, yet this is the current policy governing the most important area of the floor: the paint.

Essentially, today's defender cannot remain in the paint with no one else around - when their man is out of "armslength", defenders must vacate the paint, which creates spacing and makes the armslength provision of the defensive 3 seconds rule a shining example of rules-enforced spacing..

Otoh, in previous eras, there was no such "armslength" language in the rules.. Defenders could remain in the paint with no one around and their man far out of armslength - according to Rule 2b of the Illegal Defense Guidelines, a defender's man could be up to 3 feet outside the paint.. This rule allowed defenders to remain in the paint more often, which discourages a spacing and is therefore NOT rule-enforced spacing:

2b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area [COLOR="Red"]with no time limitations[/COLOR]. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is [COLOR="Red"]within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area[/COLOR].

[3ball]

Rule Enforced Spacing

[COLOR="green"]Specifically, what rule from previous eras enforced or ensured spacing?

If you can't answer this simple question, then the mods should ban you from plastering their boards with nonsense - it lowers the integrity of the board to repeatedly post something that never existed.[/COLOR]

[GIF REACTION]

[COLOR="green"]Specifically, what rule from previous eras enforced or ensured spacing?

If you can't answer this simple question, then the mods should ban you from plastering their boards with nonsense - it lowers the integrity of the board to repeatedly post something that never existed.[/COLOR]

Illegal Defense Guidelines

How else could teams get away with playing multiple non offensive threats on the court? This started to really happen in the late 90's, and was a general evolution of defense from the Pat Riley Knicks...

There's obviously a lot more to it

But here's a neat graph showing the increase in 1st option dependence

[TripleA]

Illegal Defense Guidelines

How else could teams get away with playing multiple non offensive threats on the court? This started to really happen in the late 90's, and was a general evolution of defense from the Pat Riley Knicks...

There's obviously a lot more to it

But here's a neat graph showing the increase in 1st option dependence

great research

[StrongLurk]

[COLOR="Red"]Which rule specifically enforced spacing?[/COLOR]... In your gif, defenders HAVEN'T followed shooters to the 3-point line - they're sagging off, just like today's game, so the old rules didn't provide any more spacing than today's rules do.. And all of your gifs were like this, with the defenders sagging off the 3-point shooters, just like today's game.

So which rules EXACTLY are forcing defenders to follow shooters out to the 3-point line?.. Nothing of course - there's never been any such thing.. Man-to-man defenders have always been allowed to sag off their man.. The Illegal Defense Guidelines didn't change that - defenders could sag off 3-point shooters all the way to the edge of the paint, and they could dip into the paint for up to 3 seconds, just like today's game:

2e. When a strongside offensive player is above the tip of the circle extended, his defensive man may be no lower than the free-throw line extended (upper defensive area) for more than [COLOR="Blue"]2.9 seconds[/COLOR]. When a weakside offensive player is above the tip of the circle, his defensive man must be no lower than the "upper defensive area" for more than [COLOR="Blue"]2.9 seconds[/COLOR].

The full Illegal Defense Guidelines from the NBA rule book found [COLOR="Blue"]here[/COLOR], also shown at realgm here

Man-to-man defenders have ALWAYS been allowed to sag off their man.. The only time in history when defenders weren't allowed to sag off their man is today's paint defenders, who must remain with "armslength" of their man to remain in the 16 x 19 foot painted area.. "Armslength" (about 3 feet) is the strictest defense possible outside of having defenders stand shoulder-to-shoulder, yet this is the current policy governing the most important area of the floor: the paint.

Essentially, today's defender cannot remain in the paint with no one else around - when their man is out of "armslength", defenders must vacate the paint, which creates spacing and makes the armslength provision of the defensive 3 seconds rule a shining example of rules-enforced spacing..

Otoh, in previous eras, there was no such "armslength" language in the rules.. Defenders could remain in the paint with no one around and their man far out of armslength - according to Rule 2b of the Illegal Defense Guidelines, a defender's man could be up to 3 feet outside the paint.. This rule allowed defenders to remain in the paint more often, which discourages a spacing and is therefore NOT rule-enforced spacing:

2b. When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area [COLOR="Red"]with no time limitations[/COLOR]. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is [COLOR="Red"]within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area[/COLOR].

Man that is ugly. So glad they changed these defensive rules.

[G0ATbe]

Notice all of these took place in weak eras pre-2000s except for Kobe. GOAT gonna GOAT .

[3ball]

Illegal Defense Guidelines

How else could teams get away with playing multiple non offensive threats on the court? This started to really happen in the late 90's, and was a general evolution of defense from the Pat Riley Knicks...

Your argument said there were rules that forced defenders to provide spacing by having to follow shooters to the 3-point line, thus providing spacing.. WHERE ARE THESE RULES??

Instead, the rules are the Illegal Defense Guidelines are the opposite of what you said - they allow defenders to sag off 3-point shooters to the edge of the paint just like today's defenders.. and defenders can dip into the paint for 3 seconds just like today's defenders - these rules were posted earlier itt.

The reality is that [COLOR="Navy"]today's rules enforce spacing in the paint[/COLOR] because defenders must vacate the paint when they aren't within "armslength" - forcing defenders to vacate the paint creates spacing and clears the paint - therefore, the "armslength" provision of today's defensive 3 seconds rule is rules-enforced spacing.

"Armslength" (about 3 feet) is the strictest defense possible outside of having defenders stand shoulder-to-shoulder, yet this is the current policy governing the most important area of the floor: the paint.

[RRR3]

One player shouldn't be taking 25+ shots a game if the team is intending to win a championship.

[3ball]

The 2015 playoffs were Lebron's first high volume series.. High volume like his 27 shots per game average can't be achieved on all 3-and-D.. But unfortunately, Lebron's efficiency is poor at the additional midrange (36% career) and isolations (33% in 2015 playoffs) required of high volume shooting - this is statistical fact - since he can't shoot well at high volume, he doesn't require/command a double team to PREVENT high volume, therefore uncomplicating an opponent's defensive strategy.. At 39% efficiency, it benefited the Warriors every time he shot, so it's no surprise that they allowed him incessant clearouts without double-teaming - they doubled him a total of 18 times in the entire series, despite all the secluded clearouts.

It's a horrific indictment on Lebron's game that his poor midrange and isolation efficiency prevents him from shooting well at high volume and commanding a double-team.. Otoh, MJ had elite efficiency at the midrange and isolations required of high volume shooting - this is why he averaged 25.1 fga in the playoffs for his career, at 48.7% fg (Lebron: 19.9 fga on 47.3).. Only 10 players in history have even had a SINGLE playoff run with 25 fga and 45% shooting.. MJ was the most efficient, high volume shooter in history, by far.

We all know how high volume can help dictate pace of the game... But that isn't enough to win... High volume AND high efficiency is what devastates teams.

Of course, achieving high efficiency at high volume [COLOR="Navy"]while winning a championship[/COLOR] requires the most skill - the player must achieve the high volume at high efficiency within a team concept, without diminishing the stats of teammates.

The only players reach the holy grail of basketball skill by shooting high volume at high efficiency while winning a championship (25+ FGA on 45%+ during the playoffs) were MJ (1992, 1993, 1997, and 1998) and Hakeem (1995).. It's crazy - sometimes we forget how skilled Hakeem eventually became.

In Lebron's case, he isn't capable of efficient high volume, so the poor efficiency alone precludes him from ever winning a championship while shooting high volume.. But his inability to achieve high volume within a team concept would also prevent him from winning a ring with high volume.. His high volume in 2015 playoffs was achieved via a ball-dominant, playground, clearout style.. This doesn't foster optimal chemistry and the stats prove it - it's a statistical fact that Lebron significantly reduces the PPG and APG of teammates, and doesn't materially improve the assist frequency of his teams (team possessions/team assists).

Here's the per 100 possession stats of MJ and other wings he's compared to - imagine if any player on this list took 6-8 more shot attempts at the same efficiency - [COLOR="Navy"]they would be doing exactly what they always do, but just a lot more OF it[/COLOR] - that's MJ - the gap between MJ and everyone else is huge, specifically because he shoots so well at high volume:

JORDAN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 43.3 pts.. 32.5 fga.. 118 ORtg.. 56.8 ts.. 2.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 2.7 stl.. 1.1 blk
LEBRON:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 36.5 pts.. 26.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 56.5 ts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. 8.6 ast.. 4.5 tov.. 2.2 stl.. 1.2 blk
DURANT:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 35.8 pts.. 25.8 fga.. 114 ORtg.. 58.3 ts.. 1.2 oreb.. 9.1 dreb.. 4.8 ast.. 4.1 tov.. 1.4 stl.. 1.5 blk
KOBE:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] 34.7 pts.. 27.7 fga.. 110 ORtg.. 54.1 ts.. 1.4 oreb.. 5.5 dreb.. 6.4 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 stl.. 0.9 blk
WADE:[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] 32.2 pts.. 24.5 fga.. 108 ORtg.. 55.4 ts.. 2.0 oreb.. 5.4 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.8 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.4 blk


Since MJ is the most efficient, high volume shooter in history, he was also the most double-teamed players ever (besides Wilt)... Even more than Shaq - Shaq was never double-teamed 10+ possessions, not even in the 2000 Finals - but MJ was all the time... The Bad Boys' 4th quarter strategy was to double MJ literally every time he touched the ball, as shown here in Game 6 of 1989 ECF - starting at the 9 minute mark of 4th quarter, MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately upon the catch - here's all 10 double-teams shown in gifs:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=88


Here's a video of him against Atlanta - he's double-teamed 12 of 13 possessions from the 6:40 mark to the 8:40 mark - [COLOR="DarkRed"]the consecutive double-teams are shown in rapid succession[/COLOR]:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDGm8pV6uU&t=6m40s


The youtube channel "[COLOR="Red"]Nobody Touches Jordan[/COLOR]" did a video of Payton guarding MJ in Game 4 of 1996 Finals (link above) - MJ was doubled exactly 10 of the 20 times he caught the ball with Payton guarding - all 10 double-teams are shown here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgFWyLRNsGk


By comparison, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals... Think about that for a second.. Still impressed with his 36 ppg on 39%?

"Curry’s ability to guard one-on-one allowed the Warriors’ wing defenders to double-team LeBron James effectively. [COLOR="Blue"]When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting[/COLOR] (11 percent)".

http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/po...defensive-team

If you watch ANY Jordan video, you'll see he's doubled between 30-100% of the time, and his scoring often occurs while avoiding/eluding a double.. This makes the gap between his stats and everyone else's even more impressive.. Here's another video of every-possession double teams vs. Indiana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOS1qNTWb70