Why is Isiah Thomas seemingly so underrated??

[MiseryCityTexas]

Thomas was like 50 years old in 94 though.

[HOoopCityJones]

Isiah is the Bizzaro CP3, did so much for his organization and Era, yet he's rarely in a GOAT PG convo. Chris hasn't done shit past the second round and they wanna compare him to Magic.

[BIZARRO]

Wow....wow.

Somebody posts this:
Hes overrated lucky he played on one of the most stacked and GOAT defenses. Its arguably he wasnt even the best Piston during their best days

PGs that were better

Magic
Oscar
CP3
Stockton
Kidd
Payton

Then Zeke or KJ........Peak Penny and Baron were better too.



And you post wow...wow....

Which I totally get if it is in response to Kidd or peak Baron being better than Isiah.....which is totally ridiculous....


However, it IS arguable that he was the best Piston during their championship years....Joe D has a Finals MVP too....He basically scored the same as Isiah with a much higher shooting %.....AND he was All NBA 1st team D....Which is a huge deal when comparing the two...

I watched both at that time (as a Bulls fan playing them) and Joe D was basically the equal of Isiah the championship years, and he was a killer....

I'll still take Zeke those two years for his clutch sometimes magical level he could get to....But it's close, real close....

Quite honestly, Joe D is the one who should have a thread on ISH about being underrated, and this thread proves it...

[24-Inch_Chrome]

My top-5 PGs:

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Isiah
4. Nash
5. Stockton/Kidd

[jayfan]

First team all-nba alpha, that's for sure.






.

[greatest-ever]

Pure skills wise, neither were better.

Skills wise they certainly were better, they were both much better shooters and playmakers.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Somebody posts this:
Hes overrated lucky he played on one of the most stacked and GOAT defenses. Its arguably he wasnt even the best Piston during their best days

PGs that were better

Magic
Oscar
CP3
Stockton
Kidd
Payton

Then Zeke or KJ........Peak Penny and Baron were better too.



And you post wow...wow....

Which I totally get if it is in response to Kidd or peak Baron being better than Isiah.....which is totally ridiculous....


However, it IS arguable that he was the best Piston during their championship years....Joe D has a Finals MVP too....He basically scored the same as Isiah with a much higher shooting %.....AND he was All NBA 1st team D....Which is a huge deal when comparing the two...

I watched both at that time (as a Bulls fan playing them) and Joe D was basically the equal of Isiah the championship years, and he was a killer....

I'll still take Zeke those two years for his clutch sometimes magical level he could get to....But it's close, real close....

Quite honestly, Joe D is the one who should have a thread on ISH about being underrated, and this thread proves it...

Hell yeah Dumars pulled Jordan's hoe card all throughout the 80s and doesn't get much credit for it.

[ThickassGlasses]

Dumars absolutely is as well, no disagreement there.



But reading through the thread, people are putting Nash, Kidd and Stockton over Isiah frequently which is why the thread has substance. I would willing to listen to someone saying Stockton, I don't think at the end of the day there is much of a case, but I'd be inclined to listen. Everyone else mentioned in this thread (outside of Magic and Oscar) have no business being put ahead of him.


IT might not be overrated in an all time list, but he is when people are ranking their PG's.

[Mrofir]

Dumars absolutely is as well, no disagreement there.



But reading through the thread, people are putting Nash, Kidd and Stockton over Isiah frequently which is why the thread has substance. I would willing to listen to someone saying Stockton, I don't think at the end of the day there is much of a case, but I'd be inclined to listen. Everyone else mentioned in this thread (outside of Magic and Oscar) have no business being put ahead of him.


IT might not be overrated in an all time list, but he is when people are ranking their PG's.

Just to defend for a sec, I was not putting those guys ahead of Isiah. Merely saying it's a wash. If I'm pushed I'll admit that maybe Isiah has an argument to be elevated slightly above the Nash/Kidd/Stockton tier. But that's really because of 2-3 moments that defined his career in a positive way.

If Amare isn't suspended or doesn't have microfracture, maybe Nash has 2 rings and is clear cut above the others. If Jordan plays baseball 2 years later or the Jazz peak during Jordan's baseball years and get by Houston/Phoenix, maybe Stockton has 2 rings and is clear cut above the others. Looking at a combo of who I'd start a team with AND who had the most illustrious career, I still think it's a wash. I'm not sure I'd choose Isiah to start a team out of that group, and as far as careers go, it's his championships that propel him to this tier to begin with, which is fair. In my book an MVP is roughly = championship in terms of place in history. Ask Charles Barkley, who is rightly remembered as an all time great.

[bizil]

Dumars absolutely is as well, no disagreement there.



But reading through the thread, people are putting Nash, Kidd and Stockton over Isiah frequently which is why the thread has substance. I would willing to listen to someone saying Stockton, I don't think at the end of the day there is much of a case, but I'd be inclined to listen. Everyone else mentioned in this thread (outside of Magic and Oscar) have no business being put ahead of him.


IT might not be overrated in an all time list, but he is when people are ranking their PG's.

I agree! If people are putting Nash or Stockton over Isiah peak wise THEN he's underrated. In comparison to Nash, Isiah is a better scorer and defender. In comparison to Stockton, Isiah is a better scorer. Passing wise, Isiah is on their level.

People gotta realize that peak Isiah was like a mix of Stockton and Iverson. He had the passing, floor generalship, and toughness of Stockton. AND he had the takeover scoring ability and grittiness of Iverson. The only PG's FOR SURE I would take over Isiah peak wise or GOAT wise are Magic and Oscar.

[bizil]

I agree with those who say Dumars is underrated. Skill for skill, Joe D HAD NO WEAKNESSES! For a 6'3 190 pound guard, he was virtually very good to great at everything. He wasn't a freakish athlete BUT he was very strong and quick. Joe could also run the PG and allow Isiah to play off the ball.

In the two way sense (offense and defense as a package), Joe D is a top 6-7 SG of all time. Besides guys like MJ, Kobe, West, Moncrief, and Wade who combined offense and defense better?

[Mrofir]

I agree! If people are putting Nash or Stockton over Isiah peak wise THEN he's underrated. In comparison to Nash, Isiah is a better scorer and defender. In comparison to Stockton, Isiah is a better scorer. Passing wise, Isiah is on their level.

People gotta realize that peak Isiah was like a mix of Stockton and Iverson. He had the passing, floor generalship, and toughness of Stockton. AND he had the takeover scoring ability and grittiness of Iverson. The only PG's FOR SURE I would take over Isiah peak wise or GOAT wise are Magic and Oscar.

These are all great players we are talking about here. What you say looks reasonable enough on paper, but it's so easy to forget, and as a huge Nash fan it's quite easy for me to remember... takeover scoring, floor general, grittiness, etc.....

Prime Nash against Dallas, postseason of MVP season #1:

game 4 - 48 points, 5reb, 5 assist on 20-28 shooting
game 5 - 34 points, 13reb, 12 assists on 13-26 shooting
game 6 - 39 points, 12 assist, 9 rebounds, on 14-24 shooting, including game tying 3 pointer with 5 seconds left to force overtime, which the Suns won


I'm not taking anything away from Isiah, merely pointing out that we are talking about all time greats here. They all have moments of transcendence.

People also forget that Nash finished 2nd in MVP voting the year after his 2nd mvp -- he almost won 3 straight MVPs.


Isiah Thomas was a very good passer but he's just not on the same level as Stockton and Nash in that category. His raw assist numbers were lower, but more telling -- his assist to turnover ratio was SURELY much worse than Nash and Stockton. I'm not even looking that one up, I'm so confident it is true. These guys are all great great players, but it's good to be selective in how we compare them. You can't just go around saying Isiah Thomas was an equally effective passer as John Stockton just because Thomas was a very good passer. And you can't really say Isiah Thomas had the scoring ability of Allen Iverson when he was a very good scorer -- Allen Iverson was the best scoring little guy in NBA history. You're not off by a mile, but the hyperbole doesn't do us any favors.

Pure scoring -- Isiah > Nash > Stockton
Shooting -- Nash > Stockton >>> Isiah
Passing -- Stockton = Nash > Isiah
Big game performances -- Isiah > Nash > Stockton
Longevity -- Stockton > Nash > Isiah
Defense -- Stockton > Isiah >> Nash
Success in Prime, individual and team -- Isiah > Nash > Stockton
Leadership - imo, = = =, totally different styles

Award 1 point for 1st place, 2 for 2nd, 3 for 3rd, with lower numbers being better:

Stockton - 13
Isiah - 14
Nash - 13

It's a total tossup.

[bdreason]

I rank him higher than most. For me, he's the 2nd greatest PG of all-time, and a top 15 player all-time. Anyone who ranks Stockton over him, never watched them play head to head.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I'd probably have him as my 3rd all-time GOAT PG, below Magic and Oscar. Still have dudes like Frazier (very underrated as well) or Stockton though.
Think he falls top30 or so on my all-time list too.

[Real14]

Still have dudes like Frazier (very underrated as well)

I agree with this