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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
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Embiid > Jokic
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Originally Posted by 3ball
All of today's wings are dribble-happy, ball-dominant players like what we saw from Westbrook tonight - his over-dribbling looked like a chicken running around with his head cut off.
If Westbrook could add some elite off-ball game, then his game wouldn't be so predictable and STOPPABLE.
Then maybe he'd be able to shoot 10 percentage points better like Jordan and easily win the championship THIS YEAR, just like Jordan would with that stacked OKC team.
Jordan was an off-ball player whose M.O. was to produce at a GOAT rate without diminishing his teammates production in any way.. Jordan would win 75 games with that team, maybe 80... realtalk..
82-0
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Curry fam
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Bulls 54 wins without Jordan.
OKC team tonight? Lottery without Westbrook.
Stacked doe
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infamous souvlaki
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
He'd win 80 games with Ibaka as his second option?
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Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Bulls = stacked
Pippen = Durant according to OP.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Originally Posted by SugarHill
He'd win 80 games with Ibaka as his second option?
With Durant as his #2, they'd ring this year and every year until MJ retired.
Durant > Pippen easily
Durant would average 26-30, possibly 30+.... MJ 33-38 PPG..
The thought of MJ playing alongside today's more navigationally efficient players, in today's spacing.. Yikes
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Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Please go away. Please.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
See, this is what I'm talking about - Jordan drops 46 in the Finals against a super athletic team and good defense... and he does it ALL OFF-BALL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIZ3d0pnY1U&t=1m33s
If MJ had tried to get his 46 by dribbling the air out of the ball, it would've resulted in an L, because he would have hindered his teammates production.
But by getting his 46 all off-ball, Jordan literally just added this GOAT production on top of his supporting cast's without hindering theirs at all, which is why his teams always maximized their capacity and reached their ceiling.
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Great college starter
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
For once I think OP has a good point.
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Buck Dynasty
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Originally Posted by 3ball
Durant > Pippen easily
Hmmm.
Originally Posted by 3ball
So just looking at your top 4 - Lebron, Durant, Melo, and Pierce - let's compare:
Bird>Lebron
Dantley>Melo
Pippen=Durant (defense, winning experience & acumen)
Dominique>Pierce (Nique had better stats, and he almost took Bird all by himself in 1988... what would he have done with Garnett & Allen?)
Originally Posted by 3ball
I can definitely see the argument for Durant over Pippen... I prefer Pippen however, because I consider his defense into the equation, and his ability to fit better onto championship teams.
Originally Posted by 3ball
agreed - people go by sheer talent too much... a prime Pippen on the Thunder right now would fit in just as good, maybe better than Durant does.
I can understand the arguments for Durant over Pippen, but they are mostly about who would be better leading an entire franchise, not who would be better for a team.
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Originally Posted by Milbuck
Hmmm.
I had long-updated my original opinion on Durant vs. Pippen, as seen in updated Top 10 Wing rankings below, and also shown in a thread, here.
As you can see, I don't even have Pippen over Penny or Hill.. At the time in the mid-late 90's, everyone had those two ranked over Pippen.. It's just that they got hurt and their careers didn't finish with all the accolades, so people forgot they were actually better than Pippen.
[COLOR="White"]..........[/COLOR]TOP 10 WINGS, SG or SF (each era is listed in order)
[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR]2000-2014[COLOR="White"].............[/COLOR]1984-1998
Kobe Bryant............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James........... Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........ Clyde Drexler
Kevin Durant.......... Dominique Wilkins
Tracey McGrady..... Grant Hill
James Harden........ Penny Hardaway
Paul Pierce.............. Scottie Pippen
Carmelo Anthony...... Adrian Dantley
Vince Carter.......... James Worthy
Allen Iverson........... Reggie Miller
HM 1984-1998: Dr. J, Dennis Rodman, Alex English, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Kiki Vandeweghe, Mark Aguirre, Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Detlef Schrempf, Reggie Lewis, Latrell Sprewell, Sidney Moncrief, Mitch Richmond, Joe Dumars, Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Jeff Hornacek, Allan Houston, Eddie Jones, Jeff Malone
HM 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas
.
Last edited by 3ball; 03-12-2015 at 02:44 AM.
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Banned (lol)
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
You sound like Jlauber tbh. Please, no one wants to hear the endless BS and the shitty gimmicks of this alt of yours.
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Good college starter
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
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NBA Legend and Hall of Famer
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
Originally Posted by 3ball
I had long-updated my original opinion on Durant vs. Pippen, as seen in updated Top 10 Wing rankings below, and also shown in a thread, here.
As you can see, I don't even have Pippen over Penny or Hill.. At the time in the mid-late 90's, everyone had those two ranked over Pippen.. It's just that they got hurt and their careers didn't finish with all the accolades, so people forgot they were actually better than Pippen.
[COLOR="White"]..........[/COLOR] TOP 10 WINGS, SG or SF (each era is listed in order)
[COLOR="White"]...[/COLOR] 2000-2014[COLOR="White"].............[/COLOR] 1984-1998
Kobe Bryant............. Michael Jordan
LeBron James........... Larry Bird
Dwayne Wade........ Clyde Drexler
Kevin Durant.......... Dominique Wilkins
Tracey McGrady..... Grant Hill
James Harden........ Penny Hardaway
Paul Pierce.............. Scottie Pippen
Carmelo Anthony...... Adrian Dantley
Vince Carter.......... James Worthy
Allen Iverson........... Reggie Miller
HM 1984-1998: Dr. J, Dennis Rodman, Alex English, Chris Mullin, Glen Rice, Kiki Vandeweghe, Mark Aguirre, Glenn Robinson, Jamaal Mashburn, Detlef Schrempf, Reggie Lewis, Latrell Sprewell, Sidney Moncrief, Mitch Richmond, Joe Dumars, Alvin Robertson, Dennis Johnson, Ronaldo Blackman, Fat Lever, Jeff Hornacek, Allan Houston, Eddie Jones, Jeff Malone
HM 2000-2014: Ron Artest, Shawn Marion, Michael Redd, Peja Stojakovic, Antawn Jamison, Luol Deng, Rashard Lewis, Ray Allen, Paul George, Manu Ginobili, Brandon Roy, Joe Johnson, Rip Hamilton, Gilbert Arenas
^^^^^ Milbuck, is this a good enough explanation of how I've evolved on Pippen?
All I had to do was think back to what the prevailing sentiment was at the time - and everyone was like "Hill and Penny are the new, improved Pippen".
They had better, more dynamic handles, playmaking and superior scoring... And they got more dunks too.. Before they got hurt, Penny and Hill were well on their way to being in that very elite group of wing players in history that consistently amassed over 100 dunks per season (along with Dr. J, MJ, Dominique, Drexler, Durant, Lebron, Wade) - the stats show this.
In addition to not being as good as Penny and Hill, I remembered how Pippen was never took over and gave MJ a night off.. Pippen never had even one memorable playoff shot or big moment - they are all MJ's.. or Kukoc's.
Like MJ, Durant has some playoff game-winners and moments where he took over as well.. but never Pippen though... Btw, look at how much deeper the 1984-1998 forward class is... wow
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Buck Dynasty
Re: Westbrook tonight was a great example of why today's wings are so stoppable
I'm not reading that shit, dude. Give me one sentence posts and I'll consider it. Until then I've reported you on 3 of my alts for writing excessively long posts.
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