Isiah Thomas is the most underrated player in ISH history

[ZMonkey11]

OP gonna act like Dumars, Dantley, Aguirre, Laimbeer, VJohnson, Rodman, Mahorn, Salley and JEdwards isn't a stacked team. They also were coached by one of the best NBA coaches in Chuck Daly...that team was hella deep.

And once again, poster gonna act like deep means super talented. The pieces they had worked. Just like the 2000 era Pistons worked. But Isiah made that team into what it was. Go read up on how those same guys (besides Dantley) talked about Isiah.

[andgar923]

And once again, poster gonna act like deep means super talented. The pieces they had worked. Just like the 2000 era Pistons worked. But Isiah made that team into what it was. Go read up on how those same guys (besides Dantley) talked about Isiah.

This is true.

One can have an all star team but it has to still work. Zeke was clearly their leader and they followed his lead.

I think Zeke gets lost in the conversation as one of the top pgs of all time by some (as is usually the case). But I've seen him get tons of love here by some of us as well.

The younger generation (as expected) judge zeke on his stats, some of us that saw him play regard him as top 3 pgs of all time.

[magnax1]

Everyone knows Joe isn't in the same league at Zeke Thomas.

Zeke was blackballed from individual awards in the late 80s. There no way guys like his teammate Joe D and Dale Ellis should have been making All League Teams over him.

And speaking of injuries, if Zeke isn't hurt in 1988, they win 3 straight titles.

Not really true at all. Dumars was one of the two pieces that drove the pistons to be one of the best defenses ever. People act like Isiah was some sort of offensive juggernaut in the late 80s that he really just wasnt. He was an incredibly streaky scorer as his athleticism declined and he needed a jumper more, which he really just never had. People remember Isiah because of the big games he had, but forget that he had just as many horrific games on the other end of the spectrum.

[Dro]

The Bulls minus Jordan were better than the Sonics. Take off Gary Payton and you have a team led by Shawn Kemp.. which wasnt much better or deeper outside of what the Bulls had.

Isaih was just as fierce a competitor as Jordan and he in much the same way willed his teams to victory in an absolutely stacked era.

I disagree with the bolded. I agree with you and the thread about Isaiah being underrated. But I don't agree that the Bulls without Jordan were better than the Sonics without Payton.

The Sonics had Nate Mcmillan backing up Payton. Nate can get the job the done in his own right and he was arguably the second best defender on the team and one of the best defenders in the league. Guy averaged 2 spg in 22 mpg. Detlef Shrempf, Sam Perkins, Ervin Johnson who was a better defensive center than any center that the Bulls had during the Jordan years. Hersey Hawkins who was a very good shooter and defender and Vincent Askew off the bench. And then you have Kemp who averaged 20 pts, 11 reb, and 2 blocks per game on 56% shooting. Detlef averaged 17 ppg and Hawkins averaged 15 ppg while GP was averaging close to 20ppg himself. These guys could score and the Bulls would have a tougher time scoring consistently without Jordan than the Sonics without GP. Plus when you take away Jordan, thats basically all the leadership gone. At least the Sonics had another floor general in Nate and even Detlef who was a point forward, similar to Pippen.

[FatComputerNerd]

Same class as KJ. Why? No chips.

Who did these players have to go through to get to the championship? Look at the road Stockton had to take. Accolade after accolade after accolade for Stockton, he just couldn't do it. Couldn't get over the hurdle. And he had one of the top PFs of all time by his side.

Mark Price had to go through Jordan, someone Isiah and his Bad Boys dominated for the longest time. And he had one of the great centers in Brad Daugherty.

Isiah took out the guys that stopped these other PGs from getting chips. And then people mention these dudes in the same tier as Isiah. Naaaaahhhh, no thanks.

I wasn't trying to say Price was the better player or in the same tier as Isiah...only that he is underrated, while I don't see Isiah being underrated. Most place him in the top 3-5 PG of all time list.

[imdaman99]

i just have a bad taste in my mouth (no homo) cuz of his GM'ing for the knicks.

[hateraid]

And Michael Jordan played with Scottie Pippen, who for a long stretch, was twice the player Dumars was. Jordan when he was winning played on teams, that were always better than his competitions.

Nobody wins alone can really be applied to anyone.

Amen, Jordan may be the only player where his fanbase uses this as a double standard
BTW, 100% on Isiah. The only player to win during the holy trinity of the Brid, Magic, Jordan era.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Didn't read.

I agree. The general on ISH seem to throw him under the bus at every opportunity and he may be the second in line for the GOAT PG. I've seen people list him in the 50 range on all time lists... Disgusting.

[kshutts1]

Zeke may not get his due, but I can't toss around the word "Underrated" for any player that played after the 70s. This board seriously undervalues anyone before Jordan.

[ILLsmak]

Not really true at all. Dumars was one of the two pieces that drove the pistons to be one of the best defenses ever. People act like Isiah was some sort of offensive juggernaut in the late 80s that he really just wasnt. He was an incredibly streaky scorer as his athleticism declined and he needed a jumper more, which he really just never had. People remember Isiah because of the big games he had, but forget that he had just as many horrific games on the other end of the spectrum.

Yeah, I mean gimme Stockton. Dude mentioned Payton... it's hard to say, depends on what you need. Kidd is good, too.

I don't think it's cut and dry. I think most people know Isiah balled, but I don't think he's the consensus 2nd best PG. That's kind of ridic. Why? Cuz he won rings? That's basically the only argument you can use.

I don't see how you can put him over Stockton. I think if anyone is underrated its John.

-Smak

[hateraid]

OP gonna act like Dumars, Dantley, Aguirre, Laimbeer, VJohnson, Rodman, Mahorn, Salley and JEdwards isn't a stacked team. They also were coached by one of the best NBA coaches in Chuck Daly...that team was hella deep.

First off Dantley and Aguirre never played at the same time. Vinnie was only good when he got off, like an old version of Jimmer. Bhudda was a shell of himself, he was an old man on that squad. Rodman wasn't the defensive rebound monster he was on Chicago. Laimbeer was more of an x-factor getting into the heads of opponents. Dumars was a good 2 way guard, but couldn't carry a team. I think you're giving way too much credit.
Second, you can't use this example and not hold it against Jordan, who's team was way more stacked and a better coach in a weaker era.
Give credit where it's due.

[hateraid]

I disagree with the bolded. I agree with you and the thread about Isaiah being underrated. But I don't agree that the Bulls without Jordan were better than the Sonics without Payton.

The Sonics had Nate Mcmillan backing up Payton. Nate can get the job the done in his own right and he was arguably the second best defender on the team and one of the best defenders in the league. Guy averaged 2 spg in 22 mpg. Detlef Shrempf, Sam Perkins, Ervin Johnson who was a better defensive center than any center that the Bulls had during the Jordan years. Hersey Hawkins who was a very good shooter and defender and Vincent Askew off the bench. And then you have Kemp who averaged 20 pts, 11 reb, and 2 blocks per game on 56% shooting. Detlef averaged 17 ppg and Hawkins averaged 15 ppg while GP was averaging close to 20ppg himself. These guys could score and the Bulls would have a tougher time scoring consistently without Jordan than the Sonics without GP. Plus when you take away Jordan, thats basically all the leadership gone. At least the Sonics had another floor general in Nate and even Detlef who was a point forward, similar to Pippen.

You can bring all that but doesn't change the fact Scottie was still better than anyone on that team, Phil Jackson was and will always be a better coach than Karl, Rodman made up for the defensive liabilities at center, Kerr is a better shooter than anyone on that Sonics team, and Harper was a better defender than Nate. Take for the fact that in Jordan's absence they still were title contenders.
Bulls were just as stacked, maybe even more considering all the intangibles.

[Dro]

You can bring all that but doesn't change the fact Scottie was still better than anyone on that team, Phil Jackson was and will always be a better coach than Karl, Rodman made up for the defensive liabilities at center, Kerr is a better shooter than anyone on that Sonics team, and Harper was a better defender than Nate. Take for the fact that in Jordan's absence they still were title contenders.
Bulls were just as stacked, maybe even more considering all the intangibles.

Scottie was better than GP and Kemp but not by THAT much. And as far as the Bulls role players, none of them get any open shots without MJ in the lineup. None of them can create for themselves. At least Detlef, Kemp, and even Hawkins can get there own shot. I wasn't including the coaches because I thought we were just talking about the players. If you include Phil, then yeah, the Bulls would probably be better off.

[Fresh Kid]

yes I agree he iz underrated, back 2 back titles in a league vs bird, magic, jordan, ewing and hakeem.

[Vienceslav]

Most people just state their top 10 and don't give too much of a mind to the rest(tells you a lot about the level of discussion here), there is a lot of guys who you'd say they are top 10 by their resume, trouble is there's like 15 of those.
I'm pretty sure Thomas being passed up for the Olympic team in 1992 has a lot to do with that, not that a gold medal on the best team ever would make him automatically more recognized, but it is a good metaphor for his place(however unfair)among the would be 92 Olympics teammates.