Who did MJ actually beat?

[dallaslonghorn]

I don't want to be struck by lightning from the basketball gods or anything, but .....

Everyone agrees that MJ never had a true rival -- no Wilt to his Russell, no Magic to his Bird, no Duncan to his Shaq. And for many people, this is one of the biggest signs of his dominance. But isn't it possible that it wasn't that MJ was THAT good but more that his competition wasn't all that impressive?

This is not a knock on him by any stretch ... but the only top 10 players he beat in the playoffs ... Magic/Kareem in '91 and Shaq in Orlando (but this was hardly prime Shaq, this was "Kazaam" Shaq )

He never played prime Shaq, never played prime Hakeem, never played prime Tim Duncan ... hell, he never even played prime Kobe

He beat a bunch of power forwards and point guards in the '92, '93 and '96-'98 Finals. None of whom are top 25 type dudes.

NBA fans from the '80's, how many titles would MJ's Bulls have won in the 80's? I really have no idea, just asking.

[Sarcastic]

In his first title run in 1991, he went through Ewing's Knicks, Barkley's Sixers, Isiah's Pistons, and Magic Johnson's Lakers.

[dallaslonghorn]

In his first title run in 1991, he went through Ewing's Knicks, Barkley's Sixers, Isiah's Pistons, and Magic Johnson's Lakers.

That's a pretty impressive list ... but look at the 96-98 playoff runs ...

[DeronMillsap]

That's a pretty impressive list ... but look at the 96-98 playoff runs ...

He beat a Top 2 PG and a Top 3 PF of all-time, twice.

[Dave3]

Prime Stockton/Malone? Prime Payton/Kemp, Drexler, he did beat Shaq, whether he was prime or not is debatable, prime Ewing, bad boy pistons a year after they won the championship, prime Barkley, and prime Mourning. Think about it, when people talk of most of the best players of the 90s, everyone talks about how great they were but could never get rings (Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing, etc). It's not that there wasn't competition, it was that the Bulls were so dominant it made everyone else look worse than they were.

[Ruh-Roh]

Kareem wasn't on the 91 team.

edit - happy 700 to me.

[Sarcastic]

That's a pretty impressive list ... but look at the 96-98 playoff runs ...

In the 96-98 run, you still see names like Shaq, Karl Malone, Alonzo Mourning, Chris Webber, Ewing, and Reggie Miller.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Prime Stockton/Malone? Prime Payton/Kemp, Drexler, he did beat Shaq, whether he was prime or not is debatable, prime Ewing, bad boy pistons a year after they won the championship, prime Barkley, and prime Mourning. Think about it, when people talk of most of the best players of the 90s, everyone talks about how great they were but could never get rings (Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing, etc). It's not that there wasn't competition, it was that the Bulls were so dominant it made everyone else look worse than they were.

Bingo! The one thing missing from most of those guys careers is rings. Care to take a guess why?

[Collie]

If Karl Malone had 2 rings, he would be neck and neck with TD as the GOAT PF. It's not that MJ had no competition, but that the competition suffered because of a lack of rings.

[dallaslonghorn]

Prime Stockton/Malone? Prime Payton/Kemp, Drexler, he did beat Shaq, whether he was prime or not is debatable, prime Ewing, bad boy pistons a year after they won the championship, prime Barkley, and prime Mourning. Think about it, when people talk of most of the best players of the 90s, everyone talks about how great they were but could never get rings (Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing, etc). It's not that there wasn't competition, it was that the Bulls were so dominant it made everyone else look worse than they were.

Are any of these guys even top 20 players though? Like they were all good, all probly HOF guys ... but Payton and Kemp? Drexler? Ewing? C'mon did you just seriously mention Alonzo Mourning? I like 'Zo, but he's just not at the same level of the game.

I don't see how it's "debatable" that the Orlando Shaq was "prime Shaq" ... he wasn't. Stats, and common sense, can tell you that.

Barkley, Stockton, Malone ... these are all fringe top 20 guys. At best.

[Skep]

Prime Stockton/Malone? Prime Payton/Kemp, Drexler, he did beat Shaq, whether he was prime or not is debatable, prime Ewing, bad boy pistons a year after they won the championship, prime Barkley, and prime Mourning. Think about it, when people talk of most of the best players of the 90s, everyone talks about how great they were but could never get rings (Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Ewing, etc). It's not that there wasn't competition, it was that the Bulls were so dominant it made everyone else look worse than they were.

Stockton/Malone were 36-38 when Jordan faced them. If they were in their prime MJ wouldve only had 4 rings.

[Sarcastic]

If Karl Malone had 2 rings, he would be neck and neck with TD as the GOAT PF. It's not that MJ had no competition, but that the competition suffered because of a lack of rings.

If Karl Malone had 2 rings he would probably be considered better than Duncan, due to his prolific scoring.

[dallaslonghorn]

He beat a Top 2 PG and a Top 3 PF of all-time, twice.

Not to get off-topic, but I'd take Dirk/KG/Tim Duncan over Karl Malone.

[Skep]

Not to get off-topic, but I'd take Dirk/KG/Tim Duncan over Karl Malone.

That shows your age.

[Collie]

Not to get off-topic, but I'd take Dirk/KG/Tim Duncan over Karl Malone.

Duncan? Sure. KG? Debateable, but I could see it (depending teams). Dirk? GTFO