Without sports, where would these guys be in life?

[Rowe]

It's pretty clear I'm arguing over the existence of affirmative action with given, from-personal-experience examples.
I'll give you two other examples that I know personally.

1. Black student, going to Michigan for medical school, a premier medical institution. A slightly more qualified student than my other example, but as far as the typical medical school applicant goes, she was at best an average one.
2. Black student from my high school actually. Compared to the salutatorian and another friend, her resume (grade and extracurricular wise) was very lacking. Both of the other students got waitlisted/rejected respectively from Harvard while she gets in.

And you believe they only got into these schools because they were black? Is that what you're saying.


What schools do you think they should've gone to instead? If thats the premise right now of your argument in which Student 1 and Student 2 didn't deserve to go to the schools they are currently at, which school(s) fit them better for their resume?

[Snoop_Cat]

Yet you want me to believe that affirmative action is the only reason why Student A didn't have his choice of school that he feels that he deserved?

I have a hard time believing a student with a sub-3.0 GPA gets into any medical school regardless of race. Affirmative action was not exclusively devised for African Americans, it is meant for minorities as well as women.

Im just pointing out that your belief Student B got in only because he was black, is a very shallow yet predictable response. You haven't mentioned any more details about Student B, how many other universities did he get accepted into?

It is much less about Student A being denied than it is about Student B being accepted. Qualified people get denied all the time, underqualified people being accepted is much less common (all things being equal). His GPA was sub 3.2, not 3.0.

He got into the schools I mentioned, Pittsburgh, OhioState, Wake Forest, a few Caribbean ones, SUNY medical schools. He got denied from Harvard, Johns Hopkins, WashU St.Louis. What else would you like to know.

[Rowe]

It is much less about Student A being denied than it is about Student B being accepted. Qualified people get denied all the time, underqualified people being accepted is much less common (all things being equal). His GPA was sub 3.2, not 3.0.

He got into the schools I mentioned, Pittsburgh, OhioState, Wake Forest, a few Caribbean ones, SUNY medical schools. He got denied from Harvard, Johns Hopkins, WashU St.Louis. What else would you like to know.

Not much more.

I'm just simply saying, you only believe Student B got in over Student A at a specific school because student B is a minority?

[Snoop_Cat]

And you believe they only got into these schools because they were black? Is that what you're saying.


What schools do you think they should've gone to instead? If thats the premise right now of your argument in which Student 1 and Student 2 didn't deserve to go to the schools they are currently at, which school(s) fit them better for their resume?

Thats the whole point of me arguing over affirmative action - they got in largely due to help from being an ethnic minority.

You can't honestly believe that someone who took the time and commitment to provide an outstanding resume got into worse schools than another candidate who devoted much less effort and time largely due to his ethnic background. And yes, I know both of them so I know what they are like.

[Rowe]

Thats the whole point of me arguing over affirmative action - they got in largely due to help from being an ethnic minority.

You can't honestly believe that someone who took the time and commitment to provide an outstanding resume got into worse schools than another candidate who devoted much less effort and time largely due to his ethnic background. And yes, I know both of them so I know what they are like.

That resume may not have been outstanding enough to the admissions office. As I've said before they can pick & choose who they want at their school and that doesn't relate to affirmative action. The "leadership" quality for Student B might've got him in. Did Student B participate in sports?

To be more specific, the topic of whether race quotas exist is fit for this argument you're making.

[Snoop_Cat]

That resume may not have been outstanding enough to the admissions office. As I've said before they can pick & choose who they want at their school and that doesn't relate to affirmative action. The "leadership" quality for Student B might've got him in. Did Student B participate in sports?

To be more specific, the topic of whether race quotas exist is fit for this argument you're making.

As far as their resumes go, anything of recordable significance has been all listed.
In response to the resume, if the non-black student's resume is considered unimpressive, wouldn't that make the black student in this example look even worse in comparison. Neither students held top leadership roles in their respective activities.

P.S. In case anyone might be thinking I have an agenda against blacks and affirmative action, I am Asian and if anything I should be arguing against it.
I'm enjoying the debate too btw.

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

Wilt Chamberlain - Mega Brazzers Porn Star. Nicknames tells it all; "Wilt the Stilt" or "The Big Dipper"

[Steve212]

Birdman Andersen- Operating Meth labs in his native Texas.

[Rowe]

As far as their resumes go, anything of recordable significance has been all listed.
In response to the resume, if the non-black student's resume is considered unimpressive, wouldn't that make the black student in this example look even worse in comparison. Neither students held top leadership roles in their respective activities.

Black Student Union, was the reason why I mentioned "leadership".

And as Sheed pointed out, it all depends on what the school wants to bring in. As an African American, I've suffered into getting accepted into schools simply because I lack a lot of things outside of academics. 3.4 GPA(All A+'s in my Senior year), 1600 SAT, volunteer work at an elementary school. But thats it. I didnt take part in any clubs that represent leadership. I didn't do sports. I didn't do anything. Went to school, came home, shot hoops. If Affirmative Action worked in the way you say it does, shouldn't I be getting in over more qualified Whites?

P.S. In case anyone might be thinking I have an agenda against blacks and affirmative action, I am Asian and if anything I should be arguing against it.
I'm enjoying the debate too btw.

Considering you mentioned Asians in the same category as Whites, its kind of funny that you didn't group yourself with the other ethnic minorities Blacks, Hispanics, & Native Americans. Those groups who you're claiming are the only beneficiaries of Affirmative Action. Not to mention the Tech job field that has a noticeable disparity in which it hires Asians/Indians over White Americans.

That caught my eye.

[Snoop_Cat]

Black Student Union, was the reason why I mentioned "leadership".

And as Sheed pointed out, it all depends on what the school wants to bring in. As an African American, I've suffered into getting accepted into schools simply because I lack a lot of things outside of academics. 3.4 GPA(All A+'s in my Senior year), 1600 SAT, volunteer work at an elementary school. But thats it. I didnt take part in any clubs that represent leadership. I didn't do sports. I didn't do anything. Went to school, came home, shot hoops. If Affirmative Action worked in the way you say it does, shouldn't I be getting in over more qualified Whites?



Considering you mentioned Asians in the same category as Whites, its kind of funny that you didn't group yourself with the other ethnic minorities Blacks, Hispanics, & Native Americans. Those groups who you're claiming are the only beneficiaries of Affirmative Action. Not to mention the Tech job field that has a noticeable disparity in which it hires Asians/Indians over White Americans.

That caught my eye.

Just a member of the BSU. No offense intended, but the black students I'm referring had a not impressive, but decent resume whereas yours didn't offer much in variety/involvement.

Regarding the Asian thing, here's something that I heard regarding Asian affirmative action from a current Yale acceptance board member at a college convention that I went to. Asians used to be large benefactors off of affirmative action as well. However, with the stereotypical studious Asian population in combination to the foreign students, the Asian population percentage in universities compared to the Asian population percentage of the total US population was increasingly different, bypassing the "quota" of sorts, making affirmative action less and less helpful.
As far as the tech stuff goes - many of the tech sectors of these companies are located in places such as India which is why often when you call customer service, an Indian will answer. In the United States, there is hardly a noticeable discrepency in the tech factors of major companies - the Asian ratio vs. Asian population ratio isn't significantly off in US-based tech corporations.

[Rowe]

Just a member of the BSU. No offense intended, but the black students I'm referring had a not impressive, but decent resume whereas yours didn't offer much in variety/involvement.

Regarding the Asian thing, here's something that I heard regarding Asian affirmative action from a current Yale acceptance board member at a college convention that I went to. Asians used to be large benefactors off of affirmative action as well. However, with the stereotypical studious Asian population in combination to the foreign students, the Asian population percentage in universities compared to the Asian population percentage of the total US population was increasingly different, bypassing the "quota" of sorts, making affirmative action less and less helpful.
As far as the tech stuff goes - many of the tech sectors of these companies are located in places such as India which is why often when you call customer service, an Indian will answer. In the United States, there is hardly a noticeable discrepency in the tech factors of major companies - the Asian ratio vs. Asian population ratio isn't significantly off in US-based tech corporations.

Fair enough.