How Good was Walt Bellamy

[La Frescobaldi]

The thing about Bellamy... to me, his weakness was mentality.

He had all the skills in the world at the 5, great athletic ability, pretty high defense for those days of almost pure improvisation. What separated him from the big guys of that era, which was Wilt, Russell, Reed, and Thurmond, was mental toughness but also just plain smarts on the court.

Bill Russell had him bamboozled mentally, Chamberlain intimidated him physically, Reed was stronger too, and Thurmond had that ethereal defense.

Bells could rack up points in a hurry if you let him slide. He had some big games against all of the stars in those days, especially when Maravitch showed up because that was a real inside outside team.

To me he is sort of a primitive version of Patrick Ewing, without all the training and years of drills behind Ewing's game.
If you put Bells on the '60s Celtics in place of Big Bill, they win some rings but the Warriors would have won some too. On the Sixers in place of Chamberlain, they don't Bells imo didn't have the smarts to do what Wilt did.
The biggest 60s question mark for Bells would be....... what if he was on those great Laker squads? Because everbody knew the way to beat LA was in the paint, and that's exactly where and how they got beat, and if somebody like Bellamy had been on that team that may have made enough of a difference.

[LAZERUSS]

Why are you talking about Russells' scoring? He never was a scorer.

Russell was indeed a scorer in the early 60's. He had seasons of 19 ppg, post-seasons of 20-22 ppg, and even post-season series of 24 ppg (in the Finals no less.)

BUT, that was NOT the point. Bellamy had two full seasons, covering a total of 19 H2H's, in which he averaged 30 and 33 ppg against Russell. And in his career he had high games of 41, 45, 45, and 47 points against him.

This was not intended as a knock on Russell, but rather a pretty strong illustration of just how explosive Bellamy was in the first half of his career. Again, watch the video in the OP. Here was a Bellamy that was basically a shell of what he once was, putting up an impressive effort against a Kareem (Alcindor) that would go on to have arguably the greatest season of his career.

[LAZERUSS]

Bellamy basically retired following the 73-74 season (technically he played ONE game in the 74-75 season), but near the end of that season, he faced Kareem for the final time, and badly outplayed KAJ. Kareem played 39 minutes, scored 15 points, on 6-16 shooting, with 11 rebounds, while Bellamy put up a 23 point, 16 rebound effort.

[CavaliersFTW]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=212351

He was probably the 5th best center in the 60s behind Wilt Russell Reed Thurmond.

I believe he was the 4th best center in the 60's. He and Willis Reed were teammates on the Knicks in the 60's for 3 of Willis's 5 1960's seasons and Willis played forward next to him all three of those seasons. It wasn't until Bellamy was traded away in 1969 that Reed played center again, so Willis Reed was only a center in the 60's for 2 season (1965 his rookie year, and 1969).

I'm about to drop some footage most of you guys have probably never seen of Bellamy before and it's REALLY great stuff in my opinion. Bellamy could flat out ball. He could pass, he could drive one or two dribbles from the outside and go straight to the hole STRONG with either hand. His dunks are vicious, no matter who's waiting for him at the rim. He goes in for chest to chest dunks on Wilt, Russell, and Kareem without hesitation. I've got footage of Wilt blocking his dunks a few times but that speaks more to Wilt's prowess than Bellamy's lack of it, because at least two clips Bell gets through and jams it on Wilt with force even knocking Wilt back on one of them. And the 3 complete game films I've got reveal you couldn't just sag back on Bellamy to wait for his drives, he could dribble to the side and shoot or catch and shoot up to 20 feet out from anywhere on the floor and it appears he liked the corners on either side and the triple threat position on the right side. If his shot was falling it looks like you had to go out and get a hand in his face or he could hit multiple shots in a row as he did on Jabbar in that game Laz posted so he could stretch the floor and pull the really great rebounders and rim protectors away from the board.

Physically my research leads me to believe Bellamy came into the league at about 225 or 230, quickly bulked up and played most of his career at 245, and topped out at 265lbs towards the tail end of his career when he carried a small gut. He's listed 6-11 and I'm inclined to believe unlike with Russell or Wilt or Jabbar that that's what he'd also list in the modern era. I'm inclined to think he's more like 6-9 and change or 6-10 without shoes but maybe I'm wrong. He just doesn't look any taller than Bill Russell but I could be mistaken. Either way it doesn't matter, in both height and weight that'd make him in the ballpark of Deandre Jordan or Dwight Howard today and he was also a pretty good athlete.

I just ordered a DVD of one of his complete games on Ebay. So I should have another high quality complete single-game highlight of Bellamy coming soon as well as many more players from that game. The project I'm working on now is all of Bellamy's and Kareem's h2h's as I've got 3 good sources of that match up. At the start of the video will be a few clips of Bellamy strutting his stuff against other legends so that fans can get a glimpse how good he was in the 60's.

[iamgine]

They said he was like Steve Nash on defense...if Steve Nash played center.

[CavaliersFTW]

They said he was like Steve Nash on defense...if Steve Nash played center.

Who's "they"? Or are you being facetious? Lakers coach Fred Schauss in 1965 said Bellamy was a good defensive center. Bellamy looks like a good defensive center in the 3 games I've got on film. Not nearly as gifted a one as Russell, Wilt, Thurmond, or Jabbar but it looks like he tries to protect the rim, box out and switch as needed.

[La Frescobaldi]

I believe he was the 4th best center in the 60's. He and Willis Reed were teammates on the Knicks in the 60's for 3 of Willis's 5 1960's seasons and Willis played forward next to him all three of those seasons. It wasn't until Bellamy was traded away in 1969 that Reed played center again, so Willis Reed was only a center in the 60's for 2 season (1965 his rookie year, and 1969).

I'm about to drop some footage most of you guys have probably never seen of Bellamy before and it's REALLY great stuff in my opinion. Bellamy could flat out ball. He could pass, he could drive one or two dribbles from the outside and go straight to the hole STRONG with either hand. His dunks are vicious, no matter who's waiting for him at the rim. He goes in for chest to chest dunks on Wilt, Russell, and Kareem without hesitation. I've got footage of Wilt blocking his dunks a few times but that speaks more to Wilt's prowess than Bellamy's lack of it, because at least two clips Bell gets through and jams it on Wilt with force even knocking Wilt back on one of them. And the 3 complete game films I've got reveal you couldn't just sag back on Bellamy to wait for his drives, he could dribble to the side and shoot or catch and shoot up to 20 feet out from anywhere on the floor and it appears he liked the corners on either side and the triple threat position on the right side. If his shot was falling it looks like you had to go out and get a hand in his face or he could hit multiple shots in a row as he did on Jabbar in that game Laz posted so he could stretch the floor and pull the really great rebounders and rim protectors away from the board.

Physically my research leads me to believe Bellamy came into the league at about 225 or 230, quickly bulked up and played most of his career at 245, and topped out at 265lbs towards the tail end of his career when he carried a small gut. He's listed 6-11 and I'm inclined to believe unlike with Russell or Wilt or Jabbar that that's what he'd also list in the modern era. I'm inclined to think he's more like 6-9 and change or 6-10 without shoes but maybe I'm wrong. He just doesn't look any taller than Bill Russell but I could be mistaken. Either way it doesn't matter, in both height and weight that'd make him in the ballpark of Deandre Jordan or Dwight Howard today and he was also a pretty good athlete.

I just ordered a DVD of one of his complete games on Ebay. So I should have another high quality complete single-game highlight of Bellamy coming soon as well as many more players from that game. The project I'm working on now is all of Bellamy's and Kareem's h2h's as I've got 3 good sources of that match up. At the start of the video will be a few clips of Bellamy strutting his stuff against other legends so that fans can get a glimpse how good he was in the 60's.

I can't wait to see your new movie!
You probably already know Walt was the center on the 1960 Olympic squad which for many years was considered the greatest amateur basketball team ever assembled and maybe still is.

[Asukal]

Better than Wilt.

[LAZERUSS]

Better than Wilt.

From the first time the two stepped on the floor against each other, until their final H2H, Chamberlain OWNED Bellamy.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Chamberlain hung 14 games of 50+ on Bellamy in their 100 career H2H's, with three of them being 60+, and a high game of 73.

And in their first meeting CavsFTW unearthed an article which confirmed what had long been claimed...that Chamberlain blocked Bellamy's first nine shots, en route to outscoring him, 51-14.

[eliteballer]

In past research I got the impression he was one of those guys who's stats looked a lot better than he was as a player.

[Asukal]

From the first time the two stepped on the floor against each other, until their final H2H, Chamberlain OWNED Bellamy.

You never learn old man that's why its so much fun to rustle your jimmies.

[Elosha]

Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan (if you include him as a center)
Moses
Hakeem
Robinson

After that it gets interesting. Reed had a short, albeit, great career, but he wasn't even the starting center when he played alongside Bellamy. Thurmond is arguably the third greatest defensive center in NBA history (Russell and Wilt.) A PEAK McAdoo was the best player in the league for three straight seasons in the mid-70's. Some here would argue a peak Walton in there somewhere. And I suppose Dwight has to be among the best. And, of course, Bellamy was a beast on offense at his peak.

Can't overlook Ewing. I'd argue he was better than Dwight, and perhaps equal or better than some of the others mentioned. Like Bellamy, he had the misfortune of playing against transcendent players like Jordan and Hakeem at his absolute best.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Seriously if a time machine existed, 64-65 era Walt Bellamy would easily be the best center in the NBA today.

[Marchesk]

Seriously if a time machine existed, 64-65 era Walt Bellamy would easily be the best center in the NBA today.

ISH posters would be altering NBA history with a time machine. Everyone else would be getting rich or drowning Hitler as kid in the bathtub. A few might bring back some live dinosaur eggs. That would make them rich.