How Is Bill Russell and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Top 5?

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Bill Russell got 11 NBA Championships cause he played in the weak era. Plus he shot the ball horribly 44%. His stacked all-star team had to bail him out to win those 11 Championships cause of his all-star teammates. As for Kareem, he won his first championship as the man with the Bucks. He couldn't do it in the 70's with the Lakers. Then when Magic got drafted, he took over. Kareem wasn't t he man anymore. He rode Magic's coat tails with the Lakers as a side kick.

[Im so nba'd out]

LeBron left you got to let it go bro

[the mesiah]

Bill Russell got 11 NBA Championships cause he played in the weak era. Plus he shot the ball horribly 44%. His stacked all-star team had to bail him out to win those 11 Championships cause of his all-star teammates. As for Kareem, he won his first championship as the man with the Bucks. He couldn't do it in the 70's with the Lakers. Then when Magic got drafted, he took over. Kareem wasn't t he man anymore. He rode Magic's coat tails with the Lakers as a side kick.

I got russell at 8-10 , his team was already stacked when he got there in 56 and he was not skilled on the offensive side ..Lew dominated the 70's , even tho didnt win a chip he took over the 70's regardless and put up the numbers.I got magic at 2 and used to have Lew at 5 but I looked at more tape ,numbers ,accolades altogether and I could see him being at 3.i see on these boards they have him at 2, that's crazy.He owes his team accolades to Magic.

[CavaliersFTW]

OP is not very bright

[dunksby]

LeBron is gone, deal with it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Bill Russell got 11 NBA Championships cause he played in the weak era. Plus he shot the ball horribly 44%. His stacked all-star team had to bail him out to win those 11 Championships cause of his all-star teammates. As for Kareem, he won his first championship as the man with the Bucks. He couldn't do it in the 70's with the Lakers. Then when Magic got drafted, he took over. Kareem wasn't t he man anymore. He rode Magic's coat tails with the Lakers as a side kick.

Which is what Wade's done the past 3 seasons

[Kvnzhangyay]

OP is not very bright

Well it all depends on how the OP views all time rankings

Quite frankly though, I despise all time rankings. It makes no real sense as first of all how do you compare a center to a guard, and how is it possible to rank players that played in completely different eras. Like if you drop Lebron in the 60s, there is a possibility, although unlikely, he only averages 2 ppg. Same for Russell in the current league. It's all just too hypothetical for my taste. Theres just too many variances between the years

[SupermanOnSteroids]

bail his team out like win the championship without him. how bout lebron's team bail him out in 2011 and win the ship despite him averaging 17.8 points a game. how about not even particapating and still wanting to win passively. how about promising people not 7 not 8 and then bailing out after 2/4.

[nba_55]

Well it all depends on how the OP views all time rankings

Quite frankly though, I despise all time rankings. It makes no real sense as first of all how do you compare a center to a guard, and how is it possible to rank players that played in completely different eras. Like if you drop Lebron in the 60s, there is a possibility, although unlikely, he only averages 2 ppg. Same for Russell in the current league. It's all just too hypothetical for my taste. Theres just too many variances between the years

I agree! All-time lists are worthless. Members in here rank players who they have never seen play. They are ranking them solely on stats and accomplishments. This is absurd. You can't evaluate the talent of a player solely on paper. Basketball is much more than stats.

I believe members in here talk a lot about the all-time rankings because it boosts their egos. They argument with others just to prove them wrong and to feel better. It's the war of egos.

[SouBeachTalents]

I agree! All-time lists are worthless. Members in here rank players who they have never seen play. They are ranking them solely on stats and accomplishments. This is absurd. You can't evaluate the talent of a player solely on paper. Basketball is much more than stats.

I believe members in here talk a lot about the all-time rankings because it boosts their egos. They argument with others just to prove them wrong and to feel better. It's the war of egos.

[wally_world]

Who do you take over them then?

I think #2-#8 is pretty much wide open, but Russell and Kareem has the accolades steering them towards being top 5.

[GODbe]

I agree with the Russell part. If you factor in the era he played in he isn't even a top 50 candidate imo.

How the hell do you average 15ppg in one of the weakest eras in history and still get GOAT consideration . Makes no sense to me.

[EllEffEll]

You have to actually watch the game to figure these things out sometimes. If you're counting on stats to tell the whole story, you might be missing some things.

Bill Russell's presence in the key caused teams to have to alter the way they attacked the basket. He was the main ingredient that frustrated so many teams that were used to having much more access to driving the key. While I highly doubt that a current version of Bill Russell could win 11 chips, I feel like he would still be HoF material.

TBH, I HATED everything about the Celtics in the 60's. They pissed in my Laker's lunchpail year after year. It still reeks of fecal matter to say something complimentary about those teams and players, but 11 championships is not a fluke and I have come to respect that. Those guys were winners. Not always pretty, but they were gritty competitors that had that certain something that winners have.

If it was only about scoring buckets, teams like the Phoenix Suns (and the Denver Nuggets of the 80's) would have some banners in the rafters, and Mike D'Antoni would be headed for the HoF.

As for Kareem, watch who his teams went to when they really needed a bucket in crunch time. Even the Showtime Lakers had no illusions about what to do with the game on the line. Magic and Showtime helped put them in position to win, but Kareem and the half court game were counted on to seal the deal when necessary. It was the contrast in their games that was one of their greatest strengths. If they could not beat you one way, they always had the other to go to.

He played 4 years of college ball, and still played another 20 seasons in the NBA and accumulated over 38,000 points, which, when combined with the context within which he helped his teams win most of those 6 titles, he is hard to ignore.

From where I sit, if Bill Russell and KAJ are not in the GOAT #5 discussions, I have no idea who else should be in their place. Of course, guys like Hakeem, Wilt, Moses, and Shaq belong in the discussion too.

If I had to build a team of all time greats, it would really depend on who else was on the team as to who I would want at the #5. They all had flaws, but I think I would likely take KAJ most of the time to build a team around, but any of the top centers could anchor an all-time great team.

The problem with rating players as "top 5" is that nobody seems to agree on the criteria, and it depends on what YOU value in a player.

It also depends on how you compare players to try to get an apples to apples perspective. If Bill Russell grew up in today's world, he would likely have developed a skillset to compete in today's game and had access to the same training today's athletes have. Personally, I think that should be taken into account. I imagine others would rather not have that be part of the equation

Nevertheless, it's interesting to read other perspectives on how they rank the greats against each other. People will have their favorites for their own reasons, and others will cherry pick stats to support their viewpoint. I doubt you'll ever get a consensus on how to rank the GOATS, let alone agree on what order they should be in.

[1987_Lakers]

- Russell won 11 championships, is a 5x NBA MVP, and is probably the greatest defensive player in history, that is pretty hard to ignore.

- Kareem wasn't a defensive force like Russell, Hakeem, or even peak Walton, but he is one of the most dominant players in history, & probably the greatest scoring big man the league has ever seen, at his peak a top notch rebounder & defender, he also had crazy longevity, (Won Finals MVP at age 38). 6x NBA MVP. Most All-Time

[EllEffEll]

- Russell won 11 championships, is a 5x NBA MVP, and is probably the greatest defensive player in history, that is pretty hard to ignore.

- Kareem wasn't a defensive force like Russell, Hakeem, or even peak Walton, but he is one of the most dominant players in history, & probably the greatest scoring big man the league has ever seen, at his peak a top notch rebounder & defender, he also had crazy longevity, (Won Finals MVP at age 38). 6x NBA MVP. Most All-Time

Peak Walton was a badass too, no doubt. It's a shame his wheels failed him so often, and so young (which is why I didn't mention him).