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Old 11-29-2008, 06:34 PM   #91
loot
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

Priest Lauderdale wasn't Bulgarian when drafted. ;)
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:34 PM   #92
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by loot
Didier Ilunga-Mbenga
Dikembe Mutombo
Rawle Marshall
Michael Olowakandi
DeSagana Diop
Boniface N'Dong
Pape Sow
Luol Deng
Yinka Dare
etc.


all of them are no-names basically, except Mutombo, and he also had college experience. And none of them was touted the "next Olajuwon".

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If that's your criterium players like Kukoc, Divac, Drazen etc were more influential. They're the reason European players were getting drafted high, while not having college experience. They gave GM's enough confidence to draft a player like Dirk in the lottery, while these guys mostly were drafted late 1st, early second round. Drazen even in the third. IIRC Schrempf was one of the first European lottery picks. Smits, too, but both of them had Coillege experience in the US. Scouting in European leagues became more important due to these European players, thus creating the oppurtunity for guys like Dirk to get drafted in the lottery.

I'm not saying Dirk came first. But he was the first Euro to really take off in the NBA, make All-Star teams, All-NBA teams, win the MVP. He's miles ahead of any other European player in terms of accomplishments in the NBA. Dirk solidified the role of Euros in the NBA, proved Euros can be better than American players. Before him, Euros were treated like 2nd class citizens in the NBA

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Old 11-29-2008, 06:45 PM   #93
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
all of them are no-names basically, except Mutombo, and he also had college experience. And none of them was touted the "next Olajuwon".
You asked which other African players came to the NBA. I just answered the question. A already stated scouting in Africa hasn't taken off. And most players who are scouted are brought to US colleges pretty early.



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I'm not saying Dirk came first. But he was the first Euro to really take off in the NBA, make All-Star teams, All-NBA teams, win the MVP. He's miles ahead of any other European player in terms of accomplishments in the NBA.

I didn't state you said that, if you feel that's the reason I wrote that you totally missed the point.

Also Rik Smits and Schrempf were all stars before Dirk was even drafted. Of course he's miles ahead of other European's accomplishments in the NBA, but at the same time, those accomplishments came AFTER those other 'hyped' Euro's were drafted. I'm not saying he didn't have any influence, but the biggest influence for European players came before Dirk was drafted.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:49 PM   #94
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
Before him, Euros were treated like 2nd class citizens in the NBA


Also not true, Rik Smits, Schrempf, Drazen, Radja were considered good players even stars.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:50 PM   #95
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by loot
You asked which other African players came to the NBA. I just answered the question. A already stated scouting in Africa hasn't taken off. And most players who are scouted are brought to US colleges pretty early.
I know you just answered my question, I just used your answer to make a point. Hakeem's success in the NBA didn't really have an influence on how others were drafted.


Quote:
Also Rik Smits and Schrempf were all stars before Dirk was even drafted. Of course he's miles ahead of other European's accomplishments in the NBA, but at the same time, those accomplishments came AFTER those other 'hyped' Euro's were drafted. I'm not saying he didn't have any influence, but the biggest influence for European players came before Dirk was drafted.

Thing is, Euros were only hyped after Dirk was successful. Before Dirk, now Euro was hyped, they earned everything they got in the NBA. Guys like Tskitishvili, Gallinari and Bargnani on the other hand were hyped because they were touted as the "next Dirk", before they performend on a high level.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:51 PM   #96
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunch@Five
I'm not saying Dirk came first. But he was the first Euro to really take off in the NBA, make All-Star teams, All-NBA teams, win the MVP. He's miles ahead of any other European player in terms of accomplishments in the NBA. Dirk solidified the role of Euros in the NBA, proved Euros can be better than American players. Before him, Euros were treated like 2nd class citizens in the NBA
Just because Dirk has been the most successful import doesn't mean he changed the game or "solidified" the role of international influx of talent. That was all done before him, but he is just the best one so far.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:52 PM   #97
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Originally Posted by loot
Also not true, Rik Smits, Schrempf, Drazen, Radja were considered good players even stars.

none of them was considered a star. Schrempf and Drazen probably were as good as or better than guys like Manu and Tony Parker, but were never recognized the same way. No one ever thought they could potentially be better than their American counterpart
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:53 PM   #98
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Thing is, Euros were only hyped after Dirk was successful. Before Dirk, now Euro was hyped, they earned everything they got in the NBA. Guys like Tskitishvili, Gallinari and Bargnani on the other hand were hyped because they were touted as the "next Dirk", before they performend on a high level.
No, that wasn't because of Dirk. Players with potential get hyped ALL THE TIME, regardless of background. Do you think Kwame was picked #1 because of Dirk? He was drafted on potential. Darko was picked because at the time, he was 17 when being scouted, and had the skills and people thought he would be something big. That wasn't all Dirk's doing, that was the teams trying to grab prospects. It happens to all players.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:57 PM   #99
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

True, but does that make Dirk such an 'important' player? Because 4 or 5 guys were undeservingly hyped and drafted, because of him? There were 100 European guys drafted, including Dirk, because of the earlier European guys.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:57 PM   #100
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
Just because Dirk has been the most successful import doesn't mean he changed the game or "solidified" the role of international influx of talent. That was all done before him, but he is just the best one so far.

Dirk definitely changed the game/the way GMs drafted. Just look at those 3-point shooting 7-footers that were drafted the past years.


It's definitely not easy to determine who was the most important Euro. Toni Kukoc basically was Dirk v0.9, just not as dominant/good. Drazen was a great scorer. Kukoc, Divac, Drazen all where important in pushing Euros to the NBA, I'm not denying that. I just think Dirk has had more influence than any one of them. Dirk made GMs believe they could be getting a franchise cornerstone in drafting a Euro.
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Old 11-29-2008, 06:59 PM   #101
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

There are only 2 possibilities i`m not telling you its MJ#23

1. Real : Aliens come down to earth , reviving dinosaurs etc.

2. Unreal : Me not thinking MJ#23 not being most important Player In Nba History
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:03 PM   #102
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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none of them was considered a star. Schrempf and Drazen probably were as good as or better than guys like Manu and Tony Parker, but were never recognized the same way. No one ever thought they could potentially be better than their American counterpart

Heh? Schrempf was carrying the Pacers. He was averaging 20/9/6 for the playoff bound Pacers in the early 90's,

These guys were chosen as All Stars because of how good they played, how much they contributed to their teams and not because they were called upon because they needed to fill the position (Magloire). How is that not being recognized or not thinking they were better than American 'counterparts'? These guys made several All NBA Teams...

Staying with the Pacers, here's a quote from Reggie Miller about Drazen:

Quote:
"Very few players can get to me, but all time best was Drazen Petrovic. Drazen Petrovic, who used to play for Portland and New Jersey before he was killed in an automobile accident in Germany in June 1993. I loved him as player but hated him as a person. He got under my skin. Maybe because I was jealous of the way he shot the ball. Quickest release in the game. One shooter to other, I envied his ability. But man, that Yugoslavian **** (my repair: Drazen was Crotian nationality) used to eat me up. I'd be talking trash to him in my, and he would still come off screens. Just like I do to other guys.
One time in New Jersey, we had a leas, and I was talking constant **** to him. They started to make a comeback, mostly because of Petrovic shooting. He came of screen, made the shot, and ll the way down the court he was pointing in my face, saying ****. He was the Yugoslavian version of me - except I was easier to understand.
People didn't think he talked ****. They figured he was a foreign player, what did he know about the game? Trust me, he knew the game from A - Z. "
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:06 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loot


Heh? Schrempf was carrying the Pacers. He was averaging 20/9/6 for the playoff bound Pacers in the early 90's,

These guys were chosen as All Stars because of how good they played, how much they contributed to their teams and not because they were called upon because they needed to fill the position (Magloire). How is that not being recognized or not thinking they were better than American 'counterparts'? These guys made several All NBA Teams...

Staying with the Pacers, here's a quote from Reggie Miller about Drazen:

Loot its a bit off topic - but aint it kinda hard to stay up this late , cause you`re from holland?
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:08 PM   #104
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

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Loot its a bit off topic - but aint it kinda hard to stay up this late , cause you`re from holland?
Nah I slept half the day because of last night's activities. I'll probably watch a game and then go to sleep.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:13 PM   #105
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Default Re: 'MOST IMPORTANT' Players in NBA History

it's 1:12 am in our time zone, not that late, especially on a weekend

going to bed anyways, might get back at you with an argument later.
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