Greatest and Best Point Guards Ever: Year-by-Year Analysis

[Gotterdammerung]

Looking forward to your posts above, but can you really designate anyone as a point guard before that specific position was created and isolated from the other guard position? In other words, how far back are you going with that analysis, if the concept is more of a retrospective or retrojection of later notions?

Sure, there were ball-dominant guards who carried the rock across halfcourt and got their teams in offensive sets, but that doesn't mean they were the point guards if there wasn't a consistent position league-wise.

[Gifted Mind]

Looking forward to your posts above, but can you really designate anyone as a point guard before that specific position was created and isolated from the other guard position? In other words, how far back are you going with that analysis, if the concept is more of a retrospective or retrojection of later notions?

Sure, there were ball-dominant guards who carried the rock across halfcourt and got their teams in offensive sets, but that doesn't mean they were the point guards if there wasn't a consistent position league-wise.

I left a quick note in relation to this in my OP:

With all that said, a few more notes. Obviously there will be debate "was this player a PG". I am choosing to ignore those debates and go with the general consensus for which position a player is considered for their entire career. I don't want to divert this thread from its actual purpose and turn this into a positional debate. Thus, in the best PG year-by-year, only players that are considered PGs general consensus will be considered. Same for the best season. However, I will call out the "actual PG of the year". It seems a bit odd to not give the "PG of the year" award to a player who played PG all season and had the best season. So it will be called out, but again the season series is still really considering players that are considered PGs.

In general, I know this is a gray area for such an analysis and I have gone back and forth with myself many times on how to handle this issue. I have decided to go with the general consensus position of a player for their entire career. This was the simplest solution but the main reason I took it is because I don't want this thread to turn into a positional debate. Thus, in the best PG analysis, only players who are considered PGs career-wise will be considered and same for the best season analysis.

Even though I may have taken the simplest solution for this topic and used the general consensus position, that does not mean I did not do my research to figure out which player played more PG vs. SG (using the modern definition) all the way back from 1950. I know there are players who clearly played PG for a given season yet are not even going to be considered in this thread. That is a consequence I am willing to live with. I have made one exception and that is to reward such players by calling out the "Actual PG of the Year" in the best season analysis. The reason being, I felt the player who played PG for a given season should be rewarded in some manner.

But ultimately the main reason I chose to use the general consensus career position rather than their actual position in a given season, is at the end of this and future analysis (SGs, SFs, etc.) I want to get a good idea of how the games greatest so-classified PGs compare against each other. Like in an All-Time ranking. If we mixed say SGs into the PG analysis, not only will we be mixing them here, but later those same SGs won't be present in the SG analysis thread. This is a situation I wanted to avoid.

If anyone wants I can add "Actual Best PG" to this thread similar to the way there is the "Actual PG of the Year" (calling out the best PG who actually played PG for a given season rather than using their career designation). Again, I have already gone through and identified such players. The reason I only decided to do "Actual PG of the Year" because it would seem odd if such an award existed not to give it to the player who had the best season at PG just because their career classification was something else.

[IceMan2]

Looking forward to seeing this

[JtotheIzzo]

better see lots of Nash in the aughts.

[Gifted Mind]

Thread will be updated tomorrow morning.

[Gotterdammerung]

In general, I know this is a gray area for such an analysis and I have gone back and forth with myself many times on how to handle this issue. I have decided to go with the general consensus position of a player for their entire career. This was the simplest solution but the main reason I took it is because I don't want this thread to turn into a positional debate. Thus, in the best PG analysis, only players who are considered PGs career-wise will be considered and same for the best season analysis.

I understand that you don't want to get into positional debates, but I fear that this list will be little more than an exercise in anachronism, unless you clear up what exactly you mean by "general consensus position."

Whose consensus? The player in question's peers, those who played with him? Sportswriters, basketball historians? Fans? ISH authorities?

If you determine "general consensus position" by the player's peers or the experts of the day, then you can't go further back than the 70s. If it's modern-day fans or ISH authorities, then I have nothing further, your honor.

[Gifted Mind]

I understand that you don't want to get into positional debates, but I fear that this list will be little more than an exercise in anachronism, unless you clear up what exactly you mean by "general consensus position."

Whose consensus? The player in question's peers, those who played with him? Sportswriters, basketball historians? Fans? ISH authorities?

If you determine "general consensus position" by the player's peers or the experts of the day, then you can't go further back than the 70s. If it's modern-day fans or ISH authorities, then I have nothing further, your honor.

I guess I am referring to basketball historians. Most these "All-Time" lists you see have a general pattern for which player is considered what position. I am going to follow that general consensus. Again, main reason being I don't want this thread to turn into a positional debate.

[Gifted Mind]

Thread officially updated

[LAZERUSS]

[FONT="Georgia"]1970s[/FONT]

1970: W.Frazier

2. O.Robertson

3. L.Wilkens



The 1970s start with Walt Frazier at the top for PGs. This ends Robertson’s long 9 year run as the best PG in the NBA. Frazier was a great scorer and playmaker for the Knicks along with being an absolute defensive force. To this point he was the best defensive PG in the history of the NBA. After Frazier came the familiar Robertson remaining a Top 3 PG. The last spot was once again between Bing and Wilkens, and I gave the edge to Wilkens again as his leadership and playmaking skills were more important to helping a team succeed than Bing’s great scoring ability.

1971: W.Frazier

2. O.Robertson

3. D.Bing




Walt Frazier remained the top PG for back to back seasons. He was still young and therefore going to be in this discussion every year now. Part of what made him so special was he could impact the game in so many ways since he was a game changer on defense as well. Robertson remained the 2nd best PG, even at 32 he was actually still very effective guiding the Bucks to become the top offense. Bing took the 3rd spot this year playing better than ever especially on the scoring end.

1972: W. Frazier

2. T.Archibald

3. O.Robertson



4.2 - 4.0 - 3.3


Walt Frazier was the top PG for the 3rd straight year. He remained great at what he did and that was not going to change anytime soon. He was given some competition this year by Archibald, a rising star in the NBA able to score at will and was also a great passer. Tiny was arguably a better scorer and passer at this point but Frazier had a significant defensive edge. Robertson was getting older every year but remained a Top 3 PG for another season.

1973: T.Archibald

2. W.Frazier

3. L.Wilkens



The battle raged between Archibald and Frazier for the top PG spot. They were really neck to neck again, Archibald being the more impressive scorer and playmaker while Frazier had the huge defensive advantage. This year Tiny Archibald was just too amazing to ignore, he was unstoppable at scoring leading the league in points and continued to amaze passing wise leading the league in assists. He also had great stamina night in night out playing nearly 46mpg and just no PG has looked this good on offense since a prime Robertson. Frazier though secured the 2nd spot. Wilkens was a Top 3 PG again, he really has shown some spectacular longevity still playing at a high level at age 35. His basketball IQ was just very high and he could still score well and was still one of the best playmakers in the game.

1974: W. Frazier

2. C.Murphy

3. D.Bing




With Archibald battling injuries, West and Robertson practically gone, Frazier had no competition and was the best PG in 1974. He continued to play at a steady high level and this actually was one of the easiest years to select the Top PG. After Frazier it got tough, Murphy, Bing, and Norm had arguments. Murphy was the best scorer at this point out of the 3 and had solid handling and playmaking skills, while Bing still was a solid PG even now. Van Lier was a defensive stud but his lack of offensive threat left him behind Murphy and Bing. Jo Jo White was nearly good as Bing but just lacking a little.

1975: W. Frazier

2. T.Archibald

3. J.White




Walt Frazier remained the best PG in 1975. He was still one of the most feared scorers at PG and still played terrific defense. The Knicks had gotten worse progressively, but Frazier was still playing at a high level with only minimal dropping. After Frazier it was familiar Tiny Archibald who was once again healthy and producing. He remained a force on offense. The last spot was once again between Bing, Murphy, and Jo Jo. They were all very close but I gave Jo Jo White the edge, he was more capable of stepping his game up in the postseason, which he has done numerous points upto now.

1976: T.Archibald

2. J.White

3. W.Frazier



Tiny Archibald was once again the Top PG in the game. He played at a similar dominant level as last year and Clyde slipped battling injuries and just getting older. After Archibald it was Jo Jo White, who was once again solid in the regular season and stepped up in the playoffs. He played his best in the finals and was named Finals MVP. Frazier remained a Top 3 PG in the NBA despite having slown down and battling injuries. He still was solid all-around and too good to leave out. Calvin Murphy just missed the cut for Top 3.

1977: J.White

2. W.Frazier

3. C.Murphy



The competition for Top PG was as weak as it has been in a while and Jo Jo White was able to steal some of the spotlight. He was once again solid this season with his score-1st approach and once again stepped up his game in the NBA playoffs. After White comes Frazier, who was a little out of his prime but still good enough for Top 3 when healthy in this era. Murphy comes in 3rd, he remained a consistent scoring threat but was maybe too small to dominate. Overall the 70s has not been as PG dominated as the past decade was by the Big O.

1978: C.Murphy

2. K.Porter

3. D.Buse




After a few Top 3 selections Calvin Murphy was finally the best PG in the NBA in 1978. He was finally given the freedom to do what he wanted in Houston this season and he showed the NBA he could be one of the best scorers when he wanted to be. He actually played SG this year but is still considered a PG overall thus got the best PG title this season. After him was Kevin Porter, who was probably the best passer in the NBA at this point and could do a decent job scoring. Lastly we had Don Buse. The best defensive PG today and similar to KC Jones from the 60s. This was arguably the least competitive year for PGs in the NBA historically.

1979: D.Johnson

2. G.Williams

3. N.Nixon






The NBA got a little more competitive again in 1979 with rising PG stars such as DJ, Gus Williams, Norm Nixon, and Phil Ford. All these players were non-factors the year before but became more than relevant in 1979. It was also very close to call who the best PG in the NBA was in 1979. DJ, Gus, and Norm were the top 3, but all were about equal. I gave Dennis Johnson the edge as general consensus in 79 said he was the best player out of the 3. He was hadn’t developed his playmaking abilities yet, but was a great scorer and arguably the best defensive player in the game. After Johnson was his teammate Gus Williams. He was probably the best scoring PG in the game right now but also hadn’t developed his playmaking abilities yet. Norm Nixon came 3rd, he was a great passer and could score as well but he wasn’t as good on defense or explosive as DJ or Gus.

Jerry West led the NBA in assists in 71-72, ad Gail Goodrich was their "SG.".

[Gifted Mind]

Jerry West led the NBA in assists in 71-72, ad Gail Goodrich was their "SG.".

I know this as a fact. Please read me OP on PG positions. I gave West the 1972 PG of the year under best seasons.

In general, especially the best PG section, is meant to be which PG (as determined by career general consensus) was the best not which player was the best playing the PG position for a given year. So yes, this thread is focused around players classified as PGs. The best amongst them are chosen here.

[Duggrr]

Holy balls dude, nice work. Would you ever consider doing one of these for another position? Maybe SG or PF

[Gifted Mind]

Holy balls dude, nice work. Would you ever consider doing one of these for another position? Maybe SG or PF

Sure...someday. I had been requested to do such a thread for point guards. The other position I had been requested to do next was centers. You will probably see that next...someday.

[L.A. Jazz]

1) so Magic came in the NBA and was the best PG from the start? i didnt know this.

2) it seems so long ago when D.Will was really good and played CP3 better than anyone. in 2010 i was sure D.Will will be the better player careerwise.



EDit: i forgot to thank you for your work. great thread.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Great work

Some thoughts (didn't read til the end yet though)

-You're giving a bit too much credit to Tiny, he was playing on losing teams where the coach let him do everything, call it inflated stats or something and even he said the same... Not that it's not simply amazing what he was doing, even playing all those big minutes, especially when he led the league in points and assists, incredible.

-You can say West was the Lakers' PG in the early 70's.

-You're selling Gus Williams short in some of those years, overall he was probably the best PG in the 80's after Magic and Isiah. DJ was (more of) a SG at 1st, only started to play more at PG with Phoenix and then full-time with the Celtics after 1984. Even when he played with Gus, you can't call them both PG's... If anything Gus was the PG and Dennis the SG, so 1979 should've been Gus.

-Fat Lever should be top3 in 1987 imho.

[Gifted Mind]

Great work


-You're giving a bit too much credit to Tiny, he was playing on losing teams where the coach let him do everything, call it inflated stats or something and even he said the same... Not that it's not simply amazing what he was doing, even playing all those big minutes, especially when he led the league in points and assists, incredible.

I agree Tiny's stats are a bit inflated. There is no doubt. But which year in particular do you disagree with? I had him as the best PG in the NBA in 1973 and 1976. 76 was the year he led the league in points and assists. Even if you move past the stats, you will have to admit Tiny had the exceptional ability to score and pass. He was easily ahead of Frazier in both of those skills, which are the two most important for a PG to have. The ball domination got him a lot of assists, but he also did have inherent playmaking ability. He showed that later in his career as well in Boston being a primary playmaker averaging over 8apg multiple seasons without dominating the ball. He was also very tough to stop from scoring. He could hit the mid-range jumpshot but really excelled at getting to the hoop and averaged nearly 10 FT attempts per game. I still think it's rather close between him and Frazier that season, but what Archibald's advantages in scoring and playmaking while playing 46mpg were too much to overcome. Walt Frazier was my pick for PG of the year in 1973 though.

Much of his prime he was injured but 1973 he played 80 games. In 1976 he was also able to stay relatively healthy, and with Frazier falling off a bit he was my pick again for best PG.

-You can say West was the Lakers' PG in the early 70's.

I agree along with some years in the 60s. But as I mentioned in the 3rd paragraph of my OP, this thread is only for PGs (career position general consensus). Thus, each year was picked amongst the best PGs rather than best player who played PG. Nonetheless, I gave Jerry West and other players who played PG but were generally considered another position acknowledgement in the Best Season section with the "Actual PG of the Year" recognition.

-You're selling Gus Williams short in some of those years, overall he was probably the best PG in the 80's after Magic and Isiah. DJ was (more of) a SG at 1st, only started to play more at PG with Phoenix and then full-time with the Celtics after 1984. Even when he played with Gus, you can't call them both PG's... If anything Gus was the PG and Dennis the SG, so 1979 should've been Gus.

Once again you are spot-on that Dennis Johnson was the SG in Seattle while Gus was more of the PG. But again, DJ is still considered a PG for his career and thus is eligible to become the best PG in every year in this thread. I did give Gus Williams the 1979 "Actual" PG of the year recognition because even though DJ may have had a better overall season (winning Finals MVP), it was Gus Williams who actually played PG for the Sonics.

To me Gus Williams was an underrated player. He was always a good scorer, improved his passing ability as time went on to become strong there, and was an underrated defender. He also stepped up his game come playoff time through the course of his career. I had him Top 3 PG in 1979, in 1981 he did not play at all, and I also had him as a Top 3 PG from 1982-1984. He was a stud in that stretch. Taking that season off actually may have helped him as he came back as a stronger passer than ever before surpassing DJ and Michardson for me (in 1980 I gave DJ and MRR the edge, after that it was all Gus).

-Fat Lever should be top3 in 1987 imho.

He was close, but Cheeks was another player I felt is underrated. In terms of needing to win, it doesn't get better than an efficient scorer and excellent passer who plays phenomenal defense at the PG position. Lever was a solid player who came close. I think Cheeks was a better pure passer and defender. While Lever could score better, I think Cheek's efficiency makes it closer. Ultimately, the type of PG Cheeks was the one I would want on my team.