Why Doesn't Lebron Get More Hate for his Failures in Finals vs The Spurs?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Yes. I agree. I think depending on how hot they get...they win 1 or 2 games. But they don't win the series.

And how is it fair to compare prime/peak Wade and Kobe to a 4th year Lebron out of high school that was clearly nowhere close to the player he'd become.

I agree that Wade and Kobe aren't winning a title on that Cavs team, The Spurs were a legitimately great team, despite both being better than '07 Lebron.

The one advantage '07 Lebron had was that he was already a better passer/playmaker than Kobe or Wade ever were, imo. That's the most impressive thing about his '07 run to me.

Kobe in '06 and '07 faced a 50+ win team in the first round. In the East, Lebron didn't face a 50 win team until the Conference Finals. Remember that 50 wins in the west > 50 wins in the east. And Kobe had a much more worse of a team.

In '06 Playoffs Shaq averaged only 18.6 ppg, Wade 28.4. Wade had only 2 double digit scores on his team, Lebron 3.

Well, Wade's '06 cast was obviously superior to Lebron's '07 cast, and I'd take them over any of Lebron's Cavs teams.

Shaq was still a borderline top 10 player in the league and the best center in the league(excluding Duncan to avoid a pointless side debate that would surely start, especially since Duncan played alongside Mohammed/Rasho more often in the regular season, though he was clearly at center in the playoffs).

And Shaq's impact even in '06 still went well beyond stats since he was arguably the best post scorer, a presence in the paint, a very strong rebounder and one of the more difficult players to match up with 1 on 1. And this is illustrated by the fact that Miami was just 10-11 with Wade and without Shaq despite having Alonzo Mourning(12/9/4, 58 FG% as a starter) to fill in, and 42-17 when Shaq played.

Teams still usually didn't guard him 1 on 1, one of the few teams that was an exception was Detroit, and he murdered them in the conference finals putting up 22/12 on 66% shooting with 2.3 bpg. He was also very active defensively in the series. Shaq's presence also took away much of Big Ben's shot blocking and help defense as he averaged only 0.7 bpg in the series.

There were 2 series that run where Shaq's impact was comparable to Wade's. The 1st round vs Chicago when Wade was off compared to other rounds, and the ECF(though I'd still probably favor Wade due to his monster 4th quarters).

Then he had Mourning backing up Shaq, and he was one of the best centers and defensive players in the league himself. He also had Udonis Haslem, who was a solid role player who played defense, rebounded and was a solid mid-range jump shooter.

Jason Williams was less wild and a respectable point guard and good 3 point shooter, while Gary Payton was definitely solid as a back up and he hit some clutch shots.

Antoine Walker could score and he was a capable 3 point shooter, and while I often questioned his effectiveness when he was a star, I thought he was pretty effective as a complimentary player and more efficient than usual, though his efficiency dropped in the playoffs.

They also had James Posey who was an excellent defender and good 3 point shooter.

They were also a dominant rebounding team outrebounding opponents by 4.2 boards per game(more than Lebron's '07 Cavs) and a solid defensive team(top 9 during the regular season even with Shaq missing 23 games, Posey missing 15 and Zo missing 17 games).

And I'll also add what DMAVS mentioned about having Pat Riley coach them. I always think that great coaches like Phil, Riley, Pop and Larry Brown makes a difference.

I wouldn't say they stood out over other championship teams as far as casts, but they were definitely a good team.

Which obviously takes nothing away from Wade who put the team on his back during the finals and was playing really well anyway. I consider that his second best season after only 2009. And he was the second best player behind only Kobe.

The thing I don't get about 07 Lebron - people say he was the best in the league that year for leading the Cavs to the finals, but to excuse him for his finals play, people bring up stuff like

So which one is it? Best player in the league, or just really good but still unpolished?

Yeah, calling Lebron the best in '07 is a huge stretch, but I don't hear many call him the best. The vast majority at the time had Kobe as the best player in the league.

After Kobe, Duncan was also clearly better. Nash and Dirk were debatable as well, a lot will be hesitant to even mention Dirk after the Warriors series, but he had an incredible season before that, and was probably at his best as an overall player. Wade was also playing better before his injury, and I'd argue Yao was too, though he was injured just 27 games into the season and missed 34 games overall.

I'm fine with Lebron as high as top 3, and somewhere in the top 3-5 range for '07.

[rmt]

And part of the reason he had that was because of having Shaq and a quality supporting cast...coached by one of the greatest coaches ever.

Look. I'm not disputing that 06 Wade and Kobe are far superior players to 07 Lebron.

I just don't think you understand how hard it is to win a title as the sole star player...as a perimeter player at that...with that kind of supporting cast...having to beat the Pistons and Spurs. It just wouldn't have happened.

We have enough evidence. Kobe in 06 and 07 couldn't get out of the first round. Wade in 09 when he was at his best in my opinion...couldn't get out of the first round.

Like I said before. There is no evidence at all to suggest either of those guys could win the title that year on the Cavs. Win a couple more games in the finals if they get there? Sure, but win the series? No way in hell.

This.

There's a world of difference in Wade's surrounding cast - all hardened, playoff vets + the past prime-Shaq than the one surrounding Lebron (only Eric Snow had any Finals experience at all). Even with his supporting cast, Wade needed help from the refs and DAL to choke.

No way Kobe with that cast beats the 07 Spurs either. Kobe hasn't even had the kind of Finals performance that Wade had in 06 with a veteran cast - much less with that inexperienced one Lebron had. No one (perimeter) star with that cast was going to beat the Spurs with 3 stars and a great supporting cast (Bowen, Finley, Barry, Horry, Oberto).