What makes Bird greater than Shaq/Duncan?

[Manute for Ever!]

Exactly. Bird and it is not close.

Fixed. Bird had possibly the highest overall skill level and basketball IQ in NBA history.

[RaceBannana]

come on. im a massive tim duncan fan but that is just blasphimous.

why not?
there are differents ways of being clutch. Its not all about hitting game winners and buzzers.

[Brunch@Five]

The key part about Bird's offense is about him being the best non-PG playmaker ever. There have been plenty of great scorers, but how many have been able to combine that with that kind of playmaking?
Duncan being on par with Bird on offense is downright laughable. He's neither the scorer nor the playmaker.

[triangleoffense]

Bird is not a better scorer than Shaq. Shaq was a better scorer and both Duncan and O'Neal are far better rebounders and much better defensively.

I rank Bird over Duncan, but a lot of your post is false.

says the person with shaq in his name

[GP_20]

I hate stupid arguments like

"Bird was shorter thats why he didn't get as many rebounds"


Who cares? At the end of the day, we are asking who is a better rebounder, and HEIGHT MATTERS for that. It's almost as bad as saying Shaq has a poor shooting mechanic, that's why he isn't as good of a shooter. Like it's some kind of excuse.

[GP_20]

They're comparing pound for pound, I'm guessing.

Yeah I guess. But this debate isn't pound for pound.

[CB4GOATPF]

Bird's D was average at best. Only few players in the NBA were great on offense and D.
Wilt
Jordan
Hakeem
KAJ
Duncan
Tim Duncan is a better player.

Nope there have been very few players that have ranked among the Top 10 Best Offensive and Defensive Players. ORT and DRT are the real measures of Efficiency and those should be counted in Relation to

For Offense:

- "Amount of Usage% and the ORT Lead to Ur Points or Teamates Points"

- "Amount of Double Teaming/Triple Teaming, Defensive Rotations Needed to Guard u Through Per Game"

- "Level of Offensie Teamate

For Defense:

- "DRT and What Type of Offensive Players u had to Guard"
- "Level of Defensive Anchors or Teamates u Played With"

Bird is is one ONE OF THE GREATEST OFFENSIVE PLAYERS EVER and in his Healthy Prime One of the Best Defending SFs (even though had help)

Broken Down Stats Will Agree With Me:

Defensive Rating

[COLOR="darkgreen"]1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (7)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]1984-85 NBA 102.8 (8)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)
Career NBA 101.4 (84)[/COLOR]

NBA & ABA Yearly Playoff Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating

Year Lg Player DRtg Tm
2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35 ORL
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51 SAS
2007 NBA Tyrus Thomas 92.52 CHI
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13 MIA
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48 DET
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91 DET
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51 DET
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.41 DET
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42 SAS
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01 SAS
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33 SAS
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42 SAS
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64 MIA
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen 96.07 CHI
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53 SAS
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34 NYK
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56 HOU
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.35 DET
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen 99.52 CHI
1990 NBA Bill Laimbeer 96.32 DET
1989 NBA Dennis Rodman 99.38 DET
1988 NBA Bill Laimbeer 99.51 DET
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 102.24 HOU
1986 NBA Bill Walton* 100.62 BOS
1985 NBA Ralph Sampson 97.16 HOU
1984 NBA Buck Williams 99.41 NJN
1983 NBA Dan Roundfield 93.00 ATL
[COLOR="darkgreen"]1982 NBA Larry Bird* 94.21 BOS [/COLOR]
1981 NBA Rich Kelley 91.33 PHO
[COLOR="darkgreen"]1980 NBA Larry Bird* 95.93 BOS [/COLOR]
1979 NBA Gar Heard 90.53 PHO
1978 NBA Caldwell Jones 93.56 PHI
1977 NBA Bill Walton* 89.53 POR
1976 NBA Elvin Hayes* 88.11 WSB

He was at the same time one of the Greatest Total Offensive Players in his Prime while recieving the Best SG/SF/PF Defenders on Him

He himself was a Total Missmatch a PG-SG-SF sometimes PF in One Package.

Offensive Rating

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]1984-85 NBA 119.1 (10)
1986-87 NBA 120.9 (10)
1987-88 NBA 121.3 (8)[/COLOR]

[CB4GOATPF]

How Good Where Larry Bird and Charles Barkley, Aka "The Greatest Forwards/Multipositional or Not" OFFENSIVELY? Here we go

http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/hoopla/index.html

[B][COLOR="blue"]Charles Barkley was...well, I was tempted to call him a loser [/COLOR] - [COLOR="Red"]then I came to my senses

(ofcourse with all The Hate Barkley Got It Sucks that a 6`5 is the Most Dominant Inside Player doesn`t? )[/COLOR].

All this classifying I was doing in my head meant nothing, but it represented my feeling about how players affect the teams they play for. No matter who Magic, Bird, or Dr. J played for, their teams would always be good. Charles Barkley impressed me as one who would always hurt his team no matter where he played and no matter how good his stats. [COLOR="red"]When I realized that I was classifying a great player as a loser, I also realized that such classification was stupid and best left for drunken rowdy fans, not for rational and unbiased basketball analysts like me or Tommy Heinsohn[/COLOR].

What I'd like to do then is to present the new and improved points created formula and see how Charles Barkley compares to some of the consensus great players in the league: Bird, Olajuwon, McHale, Dominique, and a few others. (See Individual Floor % chapter for explanation of method.)

There is some room for error in this method and a little subjectivity makes its way into it as well. After testing the formulas a few times, though, I find that the results are pretty good in that they match many of my expectations. The problem I have with the formulas is that they are not simple and running through calculations is like mowing the White House lawn - boring and time consuming, but tedious because mistakes can't be tolerated. If I didn't think the method was valid, there is no way I would have gone through all the calculations I did.

Scor. Total Approx. Pts
Player Poss. Poss. Flr% Created(perG)

[COLOR="Blue"]C. Barkley 1052 1729 .609 2100 (26.2)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]L. Bird 1061 1817 .584 2120 (27.9)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkRed"]A. Olajuwon 824 1554 .530 1650 (20.9)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Orange"]Magic 932 1539 .606 1860 (25.8)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]M. Jordan 1393 2253 .618 2780 (33.9)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]Bar None the Best Players of the Late 80s....[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]K. McHale 653 1054 .620 1300 (20.3) (Bird help)[/COLOR]

D. Wilkins 1074 1980 .542 2150 (27.6)
B. Williams 587 1068 .549 1170 (16.7)

[COLOR="Navy"]K. Malone 996 1918 .519 1990 (24.3) (With Stockton!!!!)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Orange"]J. Worthy 713 1246 .572 1420 (18.9) (Magic Help)[/COLOR]

A. English 969 1767 .549 1940 (24.2)
A. Dantley 665 1062 .626 1330 (19.3)
X. McDaniel 783 1500 .522 1560 (20.0)
T. Chambers 771 1477 .522 1540 (18.8)
M. Cage 488 960 .508 970 (13.5)
C. Oakley 516 1040 .496 1030 (12.6)
R. Tarpley 486 953 .510 970 (12.0)
O. Thorpe 819 1473 .556 1640 (20.0)
K. Willis 368 744 .494 730 (9.7)
T. Cummings 722 1420 .508 1440 (18.9)

[COLOR="Red"]-Ofcourse Scottie Pippen

[elementally morale]

AVERAGE TOTAL
PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP PPG FGM FGA FGM FGA FG% 2PM 2PA 2P%
1
Kendrick Perkins , BOS
22 12.0 4.7 7.2 104 159 .654 104 159 .654
2
Dwight Howard , ORL
23 18.0 5.9 9.2 136 211 .645 136 208 .654
3
Greg Oden , POR
21 11.1 4.4 7.2 92 152 .605 92 152 .605
[COLOR="Green"]4
Marc Gasol , MEM
22 14.3 5.3 8.7 116 192 .604 116 192 .604
5
Nene Hilario , DEN
23 13.3 5.1 8.7 117 199 .588 117 198 .591
6
Al Horford , ATL
22 13.1 5.4 9.4 119 206 .578 118 205 .576
7
Andrew Bynum , LAL
19 17.6 7.0 12.2 133 231 .576 133 230 .578
8
David Lee , NYK
23 18.2 7.3 12.7 168 293 .573 168 291 .577
9
Paul Millsap , UTA
22 10.0 4.0 7.1 89 157 .567 89 156 .571
10
Carl Landry , HOU
22 16.3 6.0 10.6 132 234 .564 132 234 .564
11
Amar'e Stoudemire , PHX
23 19.5 7.4 13.1 170 302 .563 170 300 .567
12 [/COLOR]
Kevin Garnett , BOS
22 15.5 6.6 11.8 145 259 .560 145 258 .562
[COLOR="Blue"]12
Jermaine O'Neal , MIA
18 14.3 5.9 10.6 107 191 .560 107 190 .563
14
Carlos Boozer , UTA
22 20.7 8.3 15.1 183 333 .550 183 333 .550
15
Tim Duncan , SAS
18 18.9 7.6 13.8 136 249 .546 136 245 .555
15
Beno Udrih , SAC
19 13.6 5.6 10.3 107 196 .546 83 142 .585
17
Chris Paul , NOH
14 21.2 7.6 14.1 107 197 .543 84 154 .545
18
Emeka Okafor , NOH
22 11.0 4.5 8.2 98 181 .541 98 181 .541
19
Rajon Rondo , BOS
22 11.5 5.3 9.9 116 218 .532 114 203 .562
20
* Omri Casspi , SAC
19 10.8 4.2 7.9 79 150 .527 56 105 .533
21
Brendan Haywood , WAS
20 10.4 4.1 7.8 82 156 .526 82 156 .526
22
Steve Nash , PHX
23 17.6 6.3 12.2 146 280 .521 107 198 .540
22
Josh Smith , ATL
22 15.3 6.2 12.0 137 263 .521 137 260 .527
[COLOR="Red"]24
Andrew Bogut , MIL
15 15.1 6.8 13.1 102 196 .520 102 195 .523
25
Joakim Noah , CHI
21 10.6 4.2 8.2 89 172 .517 89 172 .517
26
Jose Calderon , TOR
23 11.7 4.5 8.8 104 202 .515 81 144 .563
27
Luis Scola , HOU
22 13.9 6.0 11.7 132 258 .512 131 257 .510
28
LeBron James , CLE
23 28.2 9.7 19.2 224 441 .508 190 343 .554
28
Luke Ridnour , MIL
21 11.4 4.5 8.8 94 185 .508 74 134 .552
30
Anthony Morrow , GSW
20 14.0 5.2 10.2 104 205 .507 57 108 .528
31
Andray Blatche , WAS
20 10.8 4.6 9.2 93 184 .505 91 177 .514
31
Tony Parker , SAS
16 17.1 6.3 12.5 101 200 .505 99 194 .510
33
Ronnie Brewer , UTA
22 11.6 4.8 9.6 105 211 .498 101 194 .521
34
Louis Williams , PHI
14 17.4 6.4 12.9 90 181 .497 72 125 .576
35
Zach Randolph , MEM
22 18.9 7.6 15.4 168 339 .496 167 333 .502
36
Udonis Haslem , MIA
19 11.2 4.5 9.1 85 172 .494 85 172 .494
37
Kobe Bryant , LAL
21 28.4 10.6 21.6 223 454 .491 203 393 .517
37
Roy Hibbert , IND
20 9.6 4.0 8.2 81 165 .491 80 163 .491
37
Jason Thompson , SAC
21 14.5 5.3 10.9 112 228 .491 112 228 .491
40
Chris Bosh , TOR
25 23.9 8.1 16.5 202 413 .489 196 401 .489
41
Paul Pierce , BOS
22 18.1 5.8 11.8 127 260 .488 88 169 .521[/COLOR]
42
LaMarcus Aldridge , POR
23 15.5 6.3 13.0 145 298 .487 141 292 .483
42
Carmelo Anthony , DEN
23 30.3 10.5 21.6 242 497 .487 222 439 .506
44
Brook Lopez , NJN
23 19.5 7.2 14.8 165 340 .485 165 340 .485
44
Jason Richardson , PHX
21 16.8 6.3 13.0 132 272 .485 84 154 .545
46
Deron Williams , UTA
20 19.5 7.4 15.4 149 309 .482 125 240 .521
47
Shawn Marion , DAL
20 11.8 5.1 10.6 102 213 .479 102 207 .49[/COLOR]3
48
Ryan Gomes , MIN
23 12.4 5.2 10.9 120 251 .478 100 204 .490
48
Chris Kaman , LAC
21 18.7 7.6 16.0 160 335 .478 160 332 .482
48
Al Thornton , LAC
21 13.8 5.1 10.8 108 226 .478 106 220 .482
PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG PF PFPG PFP48M FLAG TECH EJECT
1
Jason Thompson , SAC
21 34.0 87 4.1 5.8 .0 .0 0
2
Greg Oden , POR
21 23.9 84 4.0 8.0 .0 .0 0
3
* Taj Gibson , CHI
21 24.3 81 3.9 7.6 .0 1.0 0
4
Dwight Howard , ORL
23 33.9 88 3.8 5.4 .0 5.0 0
5
Jermaine O'Neal , MIA
18 31.8 68 3.8 5.7 .0 4.0 0
6
Marc Gasol , MEM
22 35.7 81 3.7 4.9 .0 .0 0
7
Wilson Chandler , NYK
23 32.7 84 3.7 5.4 .0 .0 0
8
Tyson Chandler , CHA
19 24.2 69 3.6 7.2 .0 3.0 0
9
Brook Lopez , NJN
23 36.6 83 3.6 4.7 1.0 .0 0
10
Ersan Ilyasova , MIL
21 24.7 75 3.6 7.0 .0 .0 0
11
Amar'e Stoudemire , PHX
23 34.3 81 3.5 4.9 2.0 4.0 0
12
Channing Frye , PHX
23 30.8 80 3.5 5.4 .0 1.0 0
13
Carlos Boozer , UTA
22 36.4 76 3.5 4.6 .0 1.0 0
13
Zydrunas Ilgauskas , CLE
22 23.1 76 3.5 7.2 .0 1.0 0
15
Dahntay Jones , IND
20 32.7 69 3.4 5.1 .0 1.0 0
16
Paul Millsap , UTA
22 26.1 75 3.4 6.3 .0 .0 0
17
Kenyon Martin , DEN
20 32.6 68 3.4 5.0 .0 5.0 1
18
Nene Hilario , DEN
23 33.4 78 3.4 4.9 .0 1.0 0
19
Charlie Villanueva , DET
21 28.6 71 3.4 5.7 .0 .0 0
20
Amir Johnson , TOR
25 17.1 84 3.4 9.4 .0 .0 0
21
* Jonas Jerebko , DET
20 27.3 67 3.4 5.9 .0 .0 0
22
Roy Hibbert , IND
20 22.7 66 3.3 7.0 .0 .0 0
23
Danny Granger , IND
17 36.6 56 3.3 4.3 .0 1.0 0
24
Anderson Varejao , CLE
21 30.1 69 3.3 5.2 .0 2.0 0
25
Carmelo Anthony , DEN
23 36.7 75 3.3 4.3 .0 6.0 0
25
David Lee , NYK
23 34.3 75 3.3 4.6 .0 .0 0
27
[COLOR="Magenta"]Andrea Bargnani , TOR
24 33.3 78 3.2 4.7 .0 .0 0
28
Joakim Noah , CHI
21 33.9 68 3.2 4.6 .0 5.0 1
29
Samuel Dalembert , PHI
23 26.0 74 3.2 5.9 .0 2.0 0
29
Al Harrington , NYK
23 31.5 74 3.2 4.9 .0 1.0 0
31
Joel Przybilla , POR
24 21.3 76 3.2 7.2 .0 .0 0
32
* Stephen Curry , GSW
22 31.6 69 3.1 4.8 .0 .0 0
33
Nenad Krstic , OKC
19 23.3 59 3.1 6.4 .0 .0 0
34
Elton Brand , PHI
20 31.2 62 3.1 4.8 .0 .0 0
34
George Hill , SAS
20 25.0 62 3.1 6.0 .0 .0 0
36
Michael Beasley , MIA
21 32.2 65 3.1 4.6 .0 .0 0
36
Corey Maggette , GSW
21 25.5 65 3.1 5.8 .0 3.0 0
38
Carl Landry , HOU
22 26.4 68 3.1 5.6 .0 .0 0
38
Rodney Stuckey , DET
22 37.8 68 3.1 3.9 .0 2.0 0[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]40
Anthony Morrow , GSW
20 34.1 61 3.0 4.3 .0 1.0 0
41
Baron Davis , LAC
21 33.5 64 3.0 4.4 .0 4.0 0
42
Monta Ellis , GSW
22 40.7 67 3.0 3.6 .0 3.0 0
43
Hedo Turkoglu , TOR
24 33.7 73 3.0 4.3 .0 .0 0
44
Anthony Randolph , GSW
20 22.1 60 3.0 6.5 .0 1.0 0
45
LaMarcus Aldridge , POR
23 34.0 68 3.0 4.2 .0 1.0 0
46
Al Horford , ATL
22 33.2 65 3.0 4.3 .0 1.0 0
46
Emeka Okafor , NOH
22 30.0 65 3.0 4.7 .0 .0 0
46
Luis Scola , HOU
22 29.1 65 3.0 4.9 .0 .0 0
49
Chris Kaman , LAC
21 36.8 62 3.0 3.9 .0 2.0 0
50
* Tyreke Evans , SAC
20 36.1 59 3.0 3.9 .0 .0 0
151
Zydrunas Ilgauskas , CLE
22 508 23.1
152
Martell Webster , POR
24 553 23.1
153
Jared Dudley , PHX
23 526 22.9
154
Chris Andersen , DEN
22 502 22.8
155
Roy Hibbert , IND
20 453 22.7
156
Brad Miller , CHI
21 474 22.6
157
James Posey , NOH
22 493 22.4
158
JJ Redick , ORL
23 514 22.4
159
Anthony Randolph , GSW
20 442 22.1
159
Ramon Sessions , MIN
23 508 22.1
161
Antonio McDyess , SAS
19 408 21.5
162
Jared Jeffries , NYK
22 468 21.3
163
Joel Przybilla , POR
24 510 21.3
164
* James Harden , OKC
21 446 21.2
165
Matt Bonner , SAS
20 423 21.2
166
* Ty Lawson , DEN
23 483 21.0
167
Josh Boone , NJN
23 471 20.5
168
Rasheed Wallace , BOS
22 450 20.5
169
Marquis Daniels , BOS
19 386 20.4
170
* DeMar DeRozan , TOR
25 499 20.0
171
Daniel Gibson , CLE
22 439 20.0
172
J.J. Hickson , CLE
23 444 19.3
173
Marco Belinelli , TOR
24 464 19.3
174
Ryan Hollins , MIN
23 443 19.3
175
Willie Green , PHI
23 441 19.2
176
D.J. Augustin , CHA
19 357 18.8
177
Keith Bogans , SAS
19 356 18.8
178
* Chase Budinger , HOU
21 392 18.7
179
Donte Greene , SAC
18 334 18.6
180
Jamario Moon , CLE
20 360 18.0
181
Jason Maxiell , DET
21 375 17.9
182
Mikki Moore , GSW
21 374 17.9
183
Jordan Farmar , LAL
21 374 17.8
184
Randy Foye , WAS
19 336 17.7
185
Shannon Brown , LAL
21 361 17.2
186
Amir Johnson , TOR
25 426 17.1
187
Roger Mason , SAS
19 324 17.1[/COLOR]
188
* Wayne Ellington , MIN
21 353 16.8
189
Jason Kapono , PHI
22 366 16.6
190
Eddie House , BOS
22 366 16.6
191
Darius Songaila , NOH
22 359 16.3
192
* Sam Young , MEM
22 354 16.1
193
Goran Dragic , PHX
23 365 15.9
194
Damien Wilkins , MIN
22 346 15.7
195
Sebastian Telfair , LAC
21 329 15.7
196
Kwame Brown , DET
20 310 15.5
197
* DeMarre Carroll , MEM
21 319 15.2
198
Carlos Arroyo , MIA
19 288 15.2
199
Craig Smith , LAC
21 319 15.2
200
Sasha Pavlovic , MIN
22 334 15.2


We need more numbers and colors!

[D-Rose]

[QUOTE=CB4GOATPF]How Good Where Larry Bird and Charles Barkley, Aka "The Greatest Forwards/Multipositional or Not" OFFENSIVELY? Here we go

http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/hoopla/index.html

[B][COLOR="blue"]Charles Barkley was...well, I was tempted to call him a loser [/COLOR] - [COLOR="Red"]then I came to my senses

(ofcourse with all The Hate Barkley Got It Sucks that a 6`5 is the Most Dominant Inside Player doesn`t? )[/COLOR].

All this classifying I was doing in my head meant nothing, but it represented my feeling about how players affect the teams they play for. No matter who Magic, Bird, or Dr. J played for, their teams would always be good. Charles Barkley impressed me as one who would always hurt his team no matter where he played and no matter how good his stats. [COLOR="red"]When I realized that I was classifying a great player as a loser, I also realized that such classification was stupid and best left for drunken rowdy fans, not for rational and unbiased basketball analysts like me or Tommy Heinsohn[/COLOR].

What I'd like to do then is to present the new and improved points created formula and see how Charles Barkley compares to some of the consensus great players in the league: Bird, Olajuwon, McHale, Dominique, and a few others. (See Individual Floor % chapter for explanation of method.)

There is some room for error in this method and a little subjectivity makes its way into it as well. After testing the formulas a few times, though, I find that the results are pretty good in that they match many of my expectations. The problem I have with the formulas is that they are not simple and running through calculations is like mowing the White House lawn - boring and time consuming, but tedious because mistakes can't be tolerated. If I didn't think the method was valid, there is no way I would have gone through all the calculations I did.

Scor. Total Approx. Pts
Player Poss. Poss. Flr% Created(perG)

[COLOR="Blue"]C. Barkley 1052 1729 .609 2100 (26.2)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]L. Bird 1061 1817 .584 2120 (27.9)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkRed"]A. Olajuwon 824 1554 .530 1650 (20.9)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Orange"]Magic 932 1539 .606 1860 (25.8)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Red"]M. Jordan 1393 2253 .618 2780 (33.9)[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Blue"]Bar None the Best Players of the Late 80s....[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkGreen"]K. McHale 653 1054 .620 1300 (20.3) (Bird help)[/COLOR]

D. Wilkins 1074 1980 .542 2150 (27.6)
B. Williams 587 1068 .549 1170 (16.7)

[COLOR="Navy"]K. Malone 996 1918 .519 1990 (24.3) (With Stockton!!!!)[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Orange"]J. Worthy 713 1246 .572 1420 (18.9) (Magic Help)[/COLOR]

A. English 969 1767 .549 1940 (24.2)
A. Dantley 665 1062 .626 1330 (19.3)
X. McDaniel 783 1500 .522 1560 (20.0)
T. Chambers 771 1477 .522 1540 (18.8)
M. Cage 488 960 .508 970 (13.5)
C. Oakley 516 1040 .496 1030 (12.6)
R. Tarpley 486 953 .510 970 (12.0)
O. Thorpe 819 1473 .556 1640 (20.0)
K. Willis 368 744 .494 730 (9.7)
T. Cummings 722 1420 .508 1440 (18.9)

[COLOR="Red"]-Ofcourse Scottie Pippen

[Big#50]

Larry Bird is the best offensive player ever? WTF?

[MaxFly]

bird and shaq right now both have career ppg of 24. shaq's gonna drop off after this year.

shaq career rpg = 11 , bird career rpg= 10. I dont see how 1 more rebound makes you a far better rebounder considering that shaq is like 4 inches taller than bird)

I have Bird ranked higher than Shaq as well, but you can't compare rebounding numbers as you did from different eras.

Bird played primarily throughout the 80s, and the tempo of the game was much faster than that during the years that Shaq has played. More shots were put up in the same amount of time, and consequently, there were more rebounds to be had.

[DominantElement]

Larry Bird is the best offensive player ever? WTF?

Give an argument on how he wasn't since you seem to think it's crazy. Because it's a pretty valid opinion to have. There was nothing Bird couldn't do out there on the offensive end. Nothing he couldn't do.

[Micku]

Bird is the greatest offensive player to ever play, only reason why he's inferior to Jordan was the lack of athleticism, explosion and defense.

Best O player ever? Maybe the best skillful O?

Because I don't know what you mean by the greatest offensive player. Because I think MJ is the best scorer, which is also apart of offensive.

[ThaRegul8r]

Best O player ever? Maybe the best skillful O?

Because I don't know what you mean by the greatest offensive player. Because I think MJ is the best scorer, which is also apart of offensive.

Contrary to popular belief, scoring is not the only component of offense.