Wilt's Actual Decline in His Finals

[LAZERUSS]

It is a common theme to rip Chamberlain for his "decline" in his Finals. The first number thrown around is that he averaged 30.1 ppg in his regular season career, and only 18.6 ppg in his six Finals.

Let's take a closer look shall we:

Wilt played in those six Finals, FIVE of which were AFTER his "scoring prime." They came in '64, '67, '69, '70, '72, and '73.

During those six regular seasons, Wilt averaged....

22.0 ppg, 21.0 rpg, 5.1 apg, and shot .601 from the field.

In those six Finals, he faced Bill Russell (twice), Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed (twice), and Jerry Lucas (who was the Knicks starting center in '72)...ALL in the HOF. Russell and Thurmond are widely regarded as two of the greatest defensive centers of all-time.

Here were Wilt's numbers in those six Finals, and covering 35 games.

18.6 ppg, 24.6 rpg, 3.8 apg, .559 FG%

True, a decline, but certainly nothing like "30 down to 18."


Now, here were the numbers of those six starting centers in their 34 games against Wilt:

15.6 ppg, 17.4 rpg, 4.0 apg, .439 FG%.


Now, since the "Wilt-bashers" also claim that he "choked" in his Finals, here were Wilt's, and his opposing centers numbers in the "must-win" games. Keep in mind that Chamberlain did not play in a "must-win" game in his two title runs.

Opposing centers:

10.5 ppg, 15.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, .462 FG%

Wilt in those five "must win" games:

27.4 ppg, 25.2 rpg, 3.0 apg, .611 FG%


And if you include Wilt's two title clinching games in '67 and '72:

Opposing centers:

11.3 ppg, 15.5 rpg, 5.0 apg, .409

and Wilt in those seven games:

26.4 ppg, 25.4 rpg, 3.3 apg, .623 FG%.


Not quite as big a decline as the "bashers" would have you believe...

[HomieWeMajor]

Why didn't Wilt average 50ppg in the playoffs ?

[kennethgriffin]

wilt sucks. kareem exposed his ass.

[LAZERUSS]

wilt sucks. kareem exposed his ass.

He sure did... here were Kareem's comments in 2011:

How Soon They Forget: An Open Letter to Scottie Pippen

Dear Scottie,

I have nothing but respect for you my friend as an athlete and knowledgeable basketball mind. But you are way off in your assessment of who is the greatest player of all time and the greatest scorer of all time. Your comments are off because of your limited perspective. You obviously never saw Wilt Chamberlain play who undoubtedly was the greatest scorer this game has ever known. When did MJ ever average 50.4 points per game plus 25.7 rebounds? (Wilt in the 1962 season when blocked shot statistics were not kept). We will never accurately know how many shots Wilt blocked. Oh, by the way in 1967 and 68, Wilt was a league leader in assists. Did MJ ever score 100 points in a game? How many times did MJ score more than 60 points in a game? MJ led the league in scoring in consecutive seasons for 10 years but he did this in an NBA that eventually expanded into 30 teams vs. when Wilt played and there were only 8 teams.



Every team had the opportunity to amass a solid nucleus. Only the cream of the basketball world got to play then. So MJ has to be appraised in perspective. His incredible athletic ability, charisma and leadership on the court helped to make basketball popular around the world -- no question about that. But in terms of greatness, MJ has to take a backseat to The Stilt.

In terms of winning, Michael excelled as both an emotional and scoring leader but Bill Russell’s Celtics won eight consecutive NBA Championships. Bill's rebounding average per game is over 22.5 lifetime, MJs best rebounding years was eight per game (1989). But we will never know exactly how many shots Bill Russell blocked because again, they never kept that statistic while he played. However, if you ask anybody that played against Russell, they will just roll their eyes and say he blocked all the shots he wanted to block in the crucial moments of a game.

Bill played on a total of 11 championship teams and as you very well know, Scottie, the ring is the thing, and everything else is just statistics. So I would advise you to do a little homework before crowning Michael or LeBron with the title of best ever. As dominant as he is, LeBron has yet to win a championship. I must say that it looks like Miami has finally put the team together that will change that circumstance. Its my hope that today’s players get a better perspective on exactly what has been done in this league in the days of yore.

Affectionately,
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar,
NBA’s All-Time Leading Scorer

[Warfan]

1964 -
Reg: 37ppg .524%
Finals: 29ppg .517%

1967 -
Reg: 24ppg .683
Finals: 17.7ppg .56%

1969 -
Reg: 20.5ppg .583
Finals: 11.7ppg .500

1970 -
Reg: 27.3ppg .568%
Finals: 23.3ppg .625%

1972 -
Reg: 14.8ppg .650%
Finals: 19.4ppg .600%

1973 -
Reg: 13.2ppg .727%
Finals: 11.6ppg .524%

So 1972 was the only year his scoring didnt drop significantly...

[LAZERUSS]

1964 -
Reg: 37ppg .524%
Finals: 29ppg .517%

1967 -
Reg: 24ppg .683
Finals: 17.7ppg .56%

1969 -
Reg: 20.5ppg .583
Finals: 11.7ppg .500

1970 -
Reg: 27.3ppg .568%
Finals: 23.3ppg .625%

1972 -
Reg: 14.8ppg .650%
Finals: 19.4ppg .600%

So 1972 was the only year his scoring didnt drop significantly...

Chamberlain played in 418 regular season games in '64, '67, '69, '70, '72, and '73. He scored 9193 total points in those games, or 22.0 ppg.

He played in 35 Finals games in that same span, and scored 652 total points, or 18.6 ppg.

[Warfan]

Chamberlain played in 418 regular season games in '64, '67, '69, '70, '72, and '73. He scored 9193 total points in those games, or 22.0 ppg.

He played in 35 Finals games in that same span, and scored 652 total points, or 18.6 ppg.

1964: 8 ppg drop, .7% drop
1967: 6.3 ppg drop, 12.3% drop
1969: 8.8 ppg drop, 8.3% drop
1970: 4 ppg drop
1973: 1.6 ppg drop, 23.03% drop

Not good

[LAZERUSS]

Incidently, in those six regular seasons, the NBA shot a combined eFG% of .447. And, in those six post-seasons, the NBA shot a combined eFG% of .438.

So Wilt's .559 eFG% was 11% over the league average, and his opposing center's eFG% of .439 was about 1% below it. If you just use the post-season league eFG%, Wilt shot a full 12% over the league average, and his opposing centers shot right at it.

And, of course, the "bashers" never bring up Wilt's rebounding, either. He ELEVATED his rebounding in his Finals by nearly 4 rpg. And, in the process, outrebounded his opposing starting centers by a 24.6 to 17.4 rpg margin, or over SEVEN a game.

[Nuff Said]

Wilt's career pisses me off.

[Warfan]

I'm not a Wilt 'basher' at all. I have him 3rd all-time, 1 spot higher than Russell.

The main thing you brought up was scoring and I showed that it still declined significantly in the finals, even after Wilt had taken a different role within his teams. People point to this role change to excuse the huge difference between Wilts career regular season and playoff scoring, when in actuality it still dipped later in his career and earlier on as well...

His first 7 years in the league (60-66) he led the league in scoring, and averaged 40ppg over that time span. And during that same period he averaged 33ppg in the playoffs on worse efficiency.

I'm not even trying to hate, just honestly wondering if you can explain that?

[kennethgriffin]

He sure did... here were Kareem's comments in 2011:

didnt you post this yesterday and i butt****ed you?

[stalkerforlife]

1964 -
Reg: 37ppg .524%
Finals: 29ppg .517%

1967 -
Reg: 24ppg .683
Finals: 17.7ppg .56%

1969 -
Reg: 20.5ppg .583
Finals: 11.7ppg .500

1970 -
Reg: 27.3ppg .568%
Finals: 23.3ppg .625%

1972 -
Reg: 14.8ppg .650%
Finals: 19.4ppg .600%

1973 -
Reg: 13.2ppg .727%
Finals: 11.6ppg .524%

So 1972 was the only year his scoring didnt drop significantly...

WTF?

Wilt is so overrated.

[LAZERUSS]

I'm not a Wilt 'basher' at all. I have him 3rd all-time, 1 spot higher than Russell.

The main thing you brought up was scoring and I showed that it still declined significantly in the finals, even after Wilt had taken a different role within his teams. People point to this role change to excuse the huge difference between Wilts career regular season and playoff scoring, when in actuality it still dipped later in his career and earlier on as well...

His first 7 years in the league (60-66) he led the league in scoring, and averaged 40ppg over that time span. And during that same period he averaged 33ppg in the playoffs on worse efficiency.

I'm not even trying to hate, just honestly wondering if you can explain that?

In Wilt's first seven seasons, he averaged 39.6 ppg. However, he missed the playoffs in a season in which he averaged 44.8 ppg. So his 33 ppg would have been against 38 ppg. Then, in his 52 playoff games, 30 of them were against Russell.

Let's take a closer look at Wilt's scoring and FG%'s in those five regular season H2H's against Russell, and then five post-seasons against Russell:

'59-60 Regular season in 11 H2H games: 39.1 ppg on a .465 FG%
'59-60 EDF's in six H2H games: 30.5 ppg on a .500 FG%

'61-62 Regular season in 10 H2H games: 39.7 ppg on a .468 FG%
'61-62 EDF's in seven H2H games: 33.6 ppg on a .468 FG%

'63-64 Regular season in eight H2H games: 29.1 ppg on a .530 FG%
'63-64 Finals in five H2H games: 29.2 ppg on a .517 FG%

'64-65 Regular season in 11 H2H games: 25.4 ppg on a .473 FG%
'64-65 EDF's in seven H2H games: 30.1 ppg on a .555 FG%

'65-66 Regular season in nine H2H games: 28.3 ppg on a .472 FG%
'65-66 EDF's in five H2H games: 28.0 ppg on a .509 FG%


Now let's take a look at Wilt's regular season numbers against teams that he would face in the Finals, and then his Finals numbers:

'63-64: In eight H2H games against Boston: 29.1 ppg on a .530 FG%
'63-64 Finals in five H2H games: 29.2 ppg on a .517 FG%

'66-67: In nine H2H games against S.F.: 20.7 ppg on a .562 FG%
'66-67 Finals in six H2H games: 17.5 ppg on a .560 FG%

'68-69: In six H2H games against Boston: 16.0 ppg on a .507 FG%
'68-69 Finals in seven H2H games: 11.7 ppg on a .500 FG%

'69-70: In one H2H game against N.Y.: 12 points on a .333 FG%
'69-70 Finals: In seven H2H games: 23.2 ppg on a .625 FG%

'71-72: In five H2H games against N.Y.: 16.8 ppg on a .638 FG%
'71-72 Finals: In five H2H games: 19.4 ppg on a .600 FG%

'72-73: In four H2H games against N.Y.: 9.3 ppg on a .593 FG%
'72-73: In five H2H games: 11.6 ppg on a .525 FG%.

Again, the overall "decline" is relatively small. Nor did I include his rebounding numbers, which generally increased across the board.

And again, Wilt DRAMATICALLY outplayed his OPPOSING centers, ALL in the HOF, in those six Finals. Why didn't you acknowledge that?

[LAZERUSS]

didnt you post this yesterday and i butt****ed you?

I BLEW your stupid topic AWAY. You posted a quote from KAJ in 1990. I posted a quote from Kareem in 2011, in which he essentially claimed that Wilt was greater than MJ.

BTW, you NEVER posted one quote from the "players of the 60's" in which they claimed that MJ was not a Top-10 player.

Now run along...

[LAZERUSS]

Why didn't Wilt average 50ppg in the playoffs ?

Easiest answer...he didn't face the Lakers in even ONE playoff series from his rookie season thru his '67-68 season (after that he played for LA.) How about this:

Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting. In the other, in a seven game series, Chamberlain averaged 38.6 ppg on a .559 FG%, which included games of 46 and 50 points.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.