Does anyone actually think Rose deserved the MVP over Howard in '11?

[Dresta]

He's probably THE worst NBA mvp of all time. That award was an absolute disgrace, and it's all the evidence you need that the media and its incessant need to promote sensational narratives is completely warping people's perceptions of certain basketball players, and of how good they are.


What an MVP - http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart...Season=2010-11

[poido123]

He's probably THE worst NBA mvp of all time. That award was an absolute disgrace, and it's all the evidence you need that the media and its incessant need to promote sensational narratives is completely warping people's perceptions of certain basketball players, and of how good they are.

That's your opinion, but there's no denying that he met the criteria for the award so he's a deserved MVP.

Strong stats, strong team record, best player on the team, strong narrative that year and the voting suggested as much.

[DukeDelonte13]

For as great as a athlete and competitor as he is it's all about the decisions he makes with the ball in his hands. It's been two seasons since we've seen him, but I cannot get the image of him stupidly trying to go one on one against Lebron possession after possession in that Bulls Heat series.

[BIG FURB]

I never understood the argument that chicago's defense, not Rose, was the reason for their success that year. It makes no sense considering their defense has remained top tier these past 2 seasons with him watching from the sidelines, yet they've only been an average team at best

[theaussieguy]

when will you dense ****s realize the MVP award is inherently flawed. To me he deserved it. He was the heart and soul of the team that recorded the most wins, he had a pretty clear case. If they actually made the award based on something tangible then yeah, you could clearly say whether he did or didn't but its just typical NBA bullsh!t fanfare, along with all the bullsh!t calls we see day after day.

edit: the post before me....exactly mate, exactly, these dense ****s in here are dense as ****

[Real14]

He deserved it more than Lebron or wade. I tell u dat shit. Dfright didn't deserve it, his closest was 2010.

[Inactive]

That's your opinion, but there's no denying that he met the criteria for the award so he's a deserved MVP.

Strong stats, strong team record, best player on the team, strong narrative that year and the voting suggested as much.

That's your opinion. There is no official criteria for MVP voting. Basically whoever ESPN backs as the MVP will win. Their arguments shift arbitrarily over time.

[GimmeThat]

Dwight as well as the Magic may had been suffering from trying to get back to the finals since that 09 stint.

62-20
52-30

Rose just took advantage of it and won the award.

[G.O.A.T]

Never thought it myself. I like Rose, he completes those Bulls and gives them desperately needed offense, but I personally don't think a point guard like him has the same impact as a pretty dominant two-way center who is also an elite rebounder like 2011 Dwight. And what I mean by that is Rose is a high scorer, but not as good as the true first-tier scorers like Durant, Lebron, Melo. Dirk or healthy Kobe, and a good playmaker, but not as good as the first-tier playmakers like CP3, Phoenix Nash or Utah. I view him as a smarter version of Westbrook who is a better playmaker/point guard. Though Westbrook actually reminds me A LOT of early 2000s Steve Francis, except in a situation and era that's more suited to that type of game.

Regardless, Dwight was a beast in 2011 and really had to lead, even carry Orlando at both ends because even offensively, his cast deteriorated and we know Van Gundy's defensive system revolved around Dwight's interior dominance, activity and intimidation, and that was why Orlando was an elite defense. Orlando was also a decent offensive team without a legit 2nd option who consistently got their own shot around Dwight and pretty much just a revolving door of streaky 3 point shooters. I really liked what I saw from Dwight that year, far more than in any other year. He did a much better job avoiding foul trouble after they traded Gortat, and in addition to the points he'd get from being active off lobs, high screen/rolls with Turkoglu or Nelson, running the floor and offensive boards, his post game was also looking good, consistent and effective since he'd do a good job getting position and sealing his man, often using a screen/roll to get position in the lane or running the floor for position and go up with the quick baby hook off the glass, ala early 00's Shaq, but he'd do it with either hand, his footwork looked good, he'd show some spin moves, running hooks with either hand in the lane and he was even stepping out to 12 feet for a bank shot often enough that it wasn't surprising when he'd make one.

I noted Dwight's improvement in the post throughout that season, and just for context, some were trying to argue Bynum was better in 2012 based on Bynum supposedly being better in the post, however, even in that season, Dwight's post up stats were as good, if not better than Bynum's, and Dwight was better in the post in 2011 than he was in 2012. I never bought Rose as having a greater impact based on the 10 extra wins either. The Bulls 2 greatest strengths were their dominant defense and rebounding, areas they were better than Orlando or any other team in despite Dwight being dominant in those areas, while Rose as a point guard clearly couldn't do the same things defensively or on the boards. And I don't believe the difference offensively was enough to make up for that since Dwight was pretty good himself averaging 23/14 on 59% shooting, giving Orlando a consistent low post threat and an interior force who got teams into foul trouble while carrying them to a decent offense, and Dwight was looking pretty dominant at that end midseason when he averaged 26/15 in January and February, was having huge games, rarely any down games, and that's 1/3 of the season.

I think it's more of a credit to how good Dwight was that year than a knock on Rose. Rose is a much easier guy to like personally, but Dwight was the better player, imo. The biggest complaint I had about Dwight's game in 2011 was passing out of doubles and limiting turnovers, and of course, I'd have liked to see him 65-70% from the line, but he was at least around 60% so he wasn't "hack-a-Dwight" bad as we saw in 2012 and 2013.

I was in the Dwight Howard corner at the time, 2009, 2010 and 2011 Dwight looked like a legit Superstar. It's hard for me to reconcile the impression of him I had then with what we know he is now.

In reality, even though he was not going to win it, LeBron should have been the MVP as he was so clearly the best player in the league and knowing what we know now about Howard that's not the type of guy you want winning an MVP.

I would have voted for Howard then, I'd vote for LeBron now and as good as Rose was, he's likely to go down in history as having the worst career of any MVP. So I still don't think he should have won.

I never understood the argument that chicago's defense, not Rose, was the reason for their success that year. It makes no sense considering their defense has remained top tier these past 2 seasons with him watching from the sidelines, yet they've only been an average team at best

The defense was the teams strong suit, but what Rose did for the offense was huge.

Here's some interesting numbers pertaining to the Bulls during the Rose/Noah/Tibs era. 2011-2014

Record with Rose: 159-72 .688
Record with Noah: 168-90 .651
Record with Deng: 162-84 .659
Record with Booz: 183-97 .654
Record without Rose: 106-76 .582
Record without Noah: 37-17 .685
Record without Deng: 43-23 .651
Reocrd without Booz: 22-10 .688

Seems like Rose has been the most important piece, although the Bulls are pretty good no matter what.

[Roundball_Rock]

Dwight as well as the Magic may had been suffering from trying to get back to the finals since that 09 stint.

62-20
52-30

Rose just took advantage of it and won the award.

The Magic won 59 games and made the ECF in 2010 as well. Howard finished 5th, 4th, 4th and 2nd in MVP voting from 2008-2011 so even when Orlando had the kind of record associated with MVP's (2009, 2010) he did not really come close. Even in 2011 it was not a two-way race for the MVP as some think retrospectively. Rose was the clear winner while Howard and LeBron had a close battle for 2nd.

[LAL]

If Howard won that year:

"Does anyone actually think Howard deserved the MVP over Rose in '11?"

[sportjames23]

so this is the origin of ur saltiness


**** d rose

LOL, I was just about to say the same thing. The reason for Jameer's hatred of Rose is finally revealed.

[sportjames23]

BY GAWD of course he did he was tougher than shoe leather that year.

Good Ol. J.R.!

[SCdac]

Rose absolutely deserved it. Dude had a killer regular season. 25 ppg / 8 apg for a team with lots of injuries and clutch as a mofo.

[GimmeThat]

The Magic won 59 games and made the ECF in 2010 as well. Howard finished 5th, 4th, 4th and 2nd in MVP voting from 2008-2011 so even when Orlando had the kind of record associated with MVP's (2009, 2010) he did not really come close. Even in 2011 it was not a two-way race for the MVP as some think retrospectively. Rose was the clear winner while Howard and LeBron had a close battle for 2nd.

he's one of those MVP where he needs a dominant second option, while he still provide bigger impact because of his defense.


same could really say about Lebron and FMVP awards.


I don't see his low assist rate being passed by the media