Highest Reasonable Ranking for KG

[Warfan]

Found this from the thread i think you're talking about

Looking at his career in the most favorable light you have a player who had a monster peak, great longevity and made a massive impact on his teams despite being in the roughest situation of any player in NBA history. I don't think you can take him over Jordan who had a higher peak and longer prime, KAJ much longer primer or Russell who dominated his era but beyond those 3 I think you can rank him over any player in NBA history.

Pretty much this. I honestly think MJ and Russell are a cut above the rest, then you have Kareem, then it's a massive cluster-eff after that. I'd have KG closer to 10 than 4, but there is legitimate arguments for any of those guys.

i agree with this the most. i too would have kg closer to 10 than 4 but he has a legit argument as a top 5 player after mj/russell/KAJ. id have him right next to duncan and magic in that group.

so yeah highest reasonable ranking would be 4th while personally i would put him somewhere between 5th-8th.

I pretty much agree with milbuck

[fpliii]

Just curious, where do you have Bill Russell on your list since you don't care about accolades?

I don't have a list, but I'm not sure. He had the GOAT impact defensively and maybe overall, here are the relative ORtg/DRtg:

Here are the ORtg/DRtg numbers relative to league averages:

[CODE]Team O D pO pD
57 BOS -0% 6% -0% 6%
58 BOS -1% 6% -2% 8%
59 BOS 0% 6% -1% 10%
60 BOS 2% 6% -2% 10%
61 BOS -3% 8% 2% 10%
62 BOS -0% 9% -3% 9%
63 BOS -2% 9% -4% 8%
64 BOS -4% 12% -4% 15%
65 BOS -3% 11% -4% 11%
66 BOS -3% 8% 3% 5%
67 BOS 2% 5% -7% 9%
68 BOS -1% 5% 2% 4%
69 BOS -2% 7% 4% 6%[/CODE]

First two are regular season, final two are playoffs. Higher positive number is better.

The offenses were mediocre at best, and other than Russ, who was a great defender on those teams?

It comes down to how well you'd think today. If you think he'd translate 100%, he'd have to be the GOAT. If not, somewhat lower obviously.

FWIW I do care about championships (with full context, of course), just not about MVPs/all-NBA/all-star selections etc.

[DFish24]

If we don't take into account accolades then Kobe Bryant wouldn't even be top 50 on my list.

What criteria would you use that would keep Kobe outside the Top 50?

[fpliii]

If we don't take into account accolades then Kobe Bryant wouldn't even be top 50 on my list.

lol that's a bit unreasonable. Kobe's one of the 3 most skilled players in NBA history. It's fun citing FG%, but he's a dominant mid-range and post scorer, both of which you need to win titles as an offensive player.

[DFish24]

I don't have a list, but I'm not sure. He had the GOAT impact defensively and maybe overall, here are the relative ORtg/DRtg:



It comes down to how well you'd think today. If you think he'd translate 100%, he'd have to be the GOAT. If not, somewhat lower obviously.

FWIW I do care about championships (with full context, of course), just not about MVPs/all-NBA/all-star selections etc.

Ok, was assuming that you included championships under the category accolades.

[MichaelCorleone]

What criteria would you use that would keep Kobe outside the Top 50?

Not counting accolades, Kobe Bryant is at best a healthy Gilbert Arenas. All style no substance scoring with no team play.

[fpliii]

Ok, was assuming that you included championships under the category accolades.

Oh obviously not lol, the point is to win as many championships as possible, and the players that help you do that the most would have to be the best.

[DFish24]

Not counting accolades, Kobe Bryant is at best a healthy Gilbert Arenas. All style no substance scoring with no team play.

[bizil]

14 is the highest I go.

But he could be top 5 in all around game, tho.
Wilt, Oscar, Jordan, Duncan, KG in no order.

I know I'm missing somebody.

I agree. That's the thing KG will be known as. KG is likely the most versatile big man (PF or C) ever in terms of all facets of the game. That's KG's legacy and that saying a whole lot. Bron has it on lock for perimeter guys and KG has it on lock of the bigs. So I can see KG anywhere 14-20 GOAT wise. He redefined the PF spot in a major, major way. Likely moreso than anybody ever.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He's in the Malone, Barkley, Dirk tier

[houston]

KG top 20 for sure

[Black Mamba's B]

Not counting accolades, Kobe Bryant is at best a healthy Gilbert Arenas. All style no substance scoring with no team play.

You can't be serious? Even the Dragon would disagree with you

[kshutts1]

I have him in the second tier. With my tiers, that equates to roughly the 8-12/13 range.

Same tier as Duncan, for what it's worth.

[T_L_P]

Top 1-5: Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Duncan, Bird
Top 6-10: Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kobe
Top 11-15: LeBron, West, Moses, Garnett, Oscar


So yes, top 15 is reasonable.

[kshutts1]

I agree. That's the thing KG will be known as. KG is likely the most versatile big man (PF or C) ever in terms of all facets of the game. That's KG's legacy and that saying a whole lot. Bron has it on lock for perimeter guys and KG has it on lock of the bigs. So I can see KG anywhere 14-20 GOAT wise. He redefined the PF spot in a major, major way. Likely moreso than anybody ever.

Do you work for the NBA, and that's why you fail to mention Wilt? lol.