Wilt Chamberlain's choking resume

[DatAsh]

People keep doing this because it's guaranteed to work. It's Pavlovian. The inevitable response reinforces the behavior, making it more likely to recur. Not responding = no reinforcement = extinguishment of behavior. This is basic stuff.

Won't happen

[97 bulls]

Ive never seen Jlauber so befuddled. Nice job pointing out why Wilt is rarely regarded as the greatest player ever in spite of all the stats. It seems as if he rarely came up big in big games. Or he didnt do it enough. And thats why he only has two rings.

[Legends66NBA7]

It seems as if he rarely came up big in big games. Or he didnt do it enough.

This has been debunked, though.

Infact, he showed up enough times in big games. Even dropping 40, 50 point games, grabbing 20+ rebound games.

I don't know what else he could have done.

And thats why he only has two rings.

While, obviously, he did come up short sometimes and he's obvious to blame too, those 2 rings come from 2 of the greatest teams of all-time. He anchored both of those teams and would have been the Playoff/Finals MVP for both those runs. And he had 2 different roles for both of those teams.

Like I mentioned before, that alone, puts him up with the all-time greats.

[Deuce Bigalow]

This has been debunked, though.

Infact, he showed up enough times in big games. Even dropping 40, 50 point games, grabbing 20+ rebound games.

I don't know what else he could have done.



While, obviously, he did come up short sometimes and he's obvious to blame too, those 2 rings come from 2 of the greatest teams of all-time. He anchored both of those teams and would have been the Playoff/Finals MVP for both those runs. And he had 2 different roles for both of those teams.

Like I mentioned before, that alone, puts him up with the all-time greats.

No one is saying he is not an all-time great.

Anyways...

1962 Regular Season: 50.4 PPG
1962 Playoffs: 35.0 PPG
1962 Divisional Finals: 30.7 PPG
Game 7, 1962 Divisional Finals: 22 Points

[97 bulls]

This has been debunked, though.

Infact, he showed up enough times in big games. Even dropping 40, 50 point games, grabbing 20+ rebound games.

I don't know what else he could have done.



While, obviously, he did come up short sometimes and he's obvious to blame too, those 2 rings come from 2 of the greatest teams of all-time. He anchored both of those teams and would have been the Playoff/Finals MVP for both those runs. And he had 2 different roles for both of those teams.

Like I mentioned before, that alone, puts him up with the all-time greats.

Maybe what I stated was a liitttle over the top. My point is, youre trying to compare him to top 5 players in league history. Being a huge Scottie Pippen fan, it would be hypocrtical of me if I penalized Wilt without factoring his circumstances. But Pippen isnt being put in the top 5 discussion. Wilt is.


Its like comparing 500000 thousand dollar sports cars. At that price, I dont want to hear any excuses.

[Pointguard]

A guy who averaged 50.4 PPG for the season, then in the Playoffs in a Game 7 loss he was the 4th leading scorer with 22 points.

You are going to tell me that is not choking? That is just one example.

A great defensive team is going to have priorities. And they can usually stop one player. Boston said that as a team they went at Wilt. Russell was one of the best defenders ever to boot. No great player has ever won it alone against the best defensive team in the league - there are no exceptions.

[Math2]

Destruction. How many MASSIVE INJURIES will Wilt and his teammates have had to choke these games away, jlauber?

Free throws matter, kids!

Bravo, Deuce!

Shaq shouldn't be top 10 then I guess.

[Bigsmoke]

i still pick Wit over anybody besides MJ, Kareem, and maybe a few others

[Bigsmoke]

No one is saying he is not an all-time great.

Anyways...

1962 Regular Season: 50.4 PPG
1962 Playoffs: 35.0 PPG
1962 Divisional Finals: 30.7 PPG
Game 7, 1962 Divisional Finals: 22 Points

i still think that the most shocking stat is his 48.5 minutes per game one

i mean really?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Shaq shouldn't be top 10 then I guess.

Shaq shot 50% in the Playoffs and hit the ones that mattered. Shaq himself said that.

For example. '02 WCF, Game 7: 11-15.
5-6 in 4th quarter and OT

'00 WCF, Game 7: 8-12

And he has 4 rings and a winning record in the Finals.

[Deuce Bigalow]

i still pick Wit over anybody besides MJ, Kareem, and maybe a few others

Then enjoy losing in the Playoffs

[Sarcastic]

Shaq shot 50% in the Playoffs and hit the ones that mattered. Shaq himself said that.

For example. '02 WCF, Game 7: 11-15.
5-6 in 4th quarter and OT

'00 WCF, Game 7: 8-12

So basically you're bias is going off of free throws? This is what you are hanging your hat on? Not even considering that he is the greatest rebounder, and one of the best scorers of all time. But some missed free throws is why you trash him?

[Deuce Bigalow]

So basically you're bias is going off of free throws? This is what you are hanging your hat on? Not even considering that he is the greatest rebounder, and one of the best scorers of all time. But some missed free throws is why you trash him?

Just some missed freethrows?

He had multiple games where he missed 9, 10, 11 freethrows in a 1 or 2 point loss in the NBA Finals Game 7, or Divisional Finals Game 7.

And it's not just the freethrows. His "great" scoring dropped in the Playoffs.
He averaged 50.4 PPG in the '62 Regular Season, but in the '62 Divisional Finals Game 7 he scored 22 points.

Or how about the fact that this great scorer was outscored by Sam Jones in all 4 Game 7s vs Boston.

[Legends66NBA7]

Maybe what I stated was a liitttle over the top. My point is, youre trying to compare him to top 5 players in league history. Being a huge Scottie Pippen fan, it would be hypocrtical of me if I penalized Wilt without factoring his circumstances. But Pippen isnt being put in the top 5 discussion. Wilt is.


Its like comparing 500000 thousand dollar sports cars. At that price, I dont want to hear any excuses.

Fair point, but I'm arguing something differently. If you want to say that he's not Top 5 or something, go ahead. I'm trying to say Wilt himself wasn't a "choker". My version of a "choker" is probably someone like Karl Malone or Pete Maravich. Guys who actually did "choke" more often in the playoffs... and they don't have rings either, nor were they the best player on all-time great teams.

And as for comparing player under pressure situations, it's well know that Wilt had different roles when he moved from teams.

In elimination games, from 1960-66, Wilt averaged 40ppg in 12 games. He had 3 of his 4 50+ point games were in those elimination games too. I don't have all the averages, but I'm pretty sure he's averaged in 20+ range in rebounds and his fg% is high, his ft% is low.

In elimination games, from 1967-73, Wilt averaged 23ppg in 12 games (different roles). He wasn't the main scoring option anymore (he was defenive minded Wilt at this time), but still was able to pull out a 45/27 game, 30/27/11 blocks (reported), etc...

You round his scoring average to 31.5ppg in 24 elimination games, with I'm pretty sure he had a rebounding average of 20+, high fg%, high blocks, and his enigma of low ft%.

Obviously, Wilt had his moments that he did "choke", where he should have stepped up more when he was playing a lesser role. But looking at just the raw data, when he wanted too... I think calling him a "choker", just doesn't hold up to me. Not when his actual production and championship resume say otherwise. And with the numbers I have above, people should have a strong notion of nominating Wilt has the greatest (if that's there opinion). I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[M.Bustly15A5RU8]

If I had two Kobe Bryants on my team I'd trade them both for one Wilt Chamberlain.