Arvydas Sabonis

[Kobe8]

Forgot to many to remember , Lets add Chris Dudley here.

[Psileas]

Backtracking from your comments? Maybe you learned something after all, and no, "doing things that big men are not supposed to do like shoot 3's, run fast breaks and give behind the back passes" or "He should stick to being a center, not a 7-3 guard." cannot be interpreted in a positive spin.

You didn't care to read what I posted and it seems you don't want to. I copy it:

[COLOR="SeaGreen"]Playing great against a later NBAer, having a great career in Europe, doing things that big men are not supposed to do like shoot 3's, run fast breaks and give behind the back passes is what leads most people to believe that Sabonis would be a GOAT candidate.[/COLOR] Well, for me, the very short duration of his prime is an important factor. The guy was already facing injury problems in the late 80's and his style of play has a lot to do with this. If Sabonis wanted to become an NBA All-time great level of player, he would have to stop doing the things that he did and convinced people that he was clearly better than someone like Robinson. He should stick to being a center, not a 7-3 guard.

I don't imply that everything I wrote in green font is a negative thing. But the guy was being too perimeter-oriented. So, a part of what made him look so great was what brought about his injuries. People want to pretend that he was just being unlucky and bears no responsibility for what happened to him.

If you didnt knew, fast breaks were bread and butter of centers like Bill Russell and Robinson, and being offense engine and passing hub is one of the major reasons why Russell had more rings than fingers, and when finally Wilt understood that, he got some rings too.

There is a reason Russell never faced injuries and Robinson stayed healthy for much longer than Sabonis, as well. None of them was 300 lbs and both had stronger legs for their size.
And no, that's not the reason Wilt won his rings. On the contrary, he cared about running fast breaks more when he was younger (and like the other two, he wasn't anywhere near as heavy as Sabonis. When he became, he stopped playing like a runner). Wilt improved his outlet pass that created fast breaks, but I never commented on that aspect in Sabonis' game, which was great and was irrelevant to his injuries.

Most of your comments might be true in general, but have nothing to do with topic in hand, do you really want to claim you can evaluate Sabonis better than Pippen, Walton and others? I surely hope you dont claim that.

Not necessarily, but
1) I didn't disagree with most of the things these guys said
2) I don't see the opinions of basketball greats as some set-in-stone truths that I have no right to disagree with. A lot of all-time greats have expressed opinions that a lot of people disagree with. Look no further than Kobe and the fact that Kobe's hardcore fans have mentioned a lot of quotes by all-time greats who claim that he's not that far off Jordan, something that a lot of other fans disagree with.

Dirk is incredible, just he never was as good as Sabonis, but at least will have a better NBA career.

Maybe, but you know, I'd like to see what people would claim if he had faced Sabonis' health problems when starting his rise to the top. Though we'll never know, I bet we'd have a lot of people claim "too bad Dirk had these injuries, he would have become better than Larry Bird".

Walton is known as one of the best passing centers in NBA history, and he specifically mentioned that Sabonis was better than him and others, thats quite a praise.

Bill Walton also said: "Show some respect to this living legend, this hall of famer...Arvydas Sabonis."
"Sabonis is the epitome of competitive greatness."

Agreed.

Vlade Divac said: " He's now 30 years old, but I remember him when I played against him when he was 21 or 22, he was the best center I ever saw in my life. I can say easy he was a better player than Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem. . . . I'm telling you, he was the best center I ever saw in my life. He was passing the ball, dribbling, shooting three-pointers, jumping. He did everything. Now he's lost his speed because of injury, but still he's a smart player. He knows basketball."

Here you go, another guy who not only saw, but played against prime Sabas, was quite passionate about his impressions.

Good for him, but I disagree on the bolded. Let Divac take Sabonis for his own team, I'll take Shaq or Hakeem.

(By the way, when Sabonis was 21-22, Divac was 17-19, so yes, I'd expect him to be more easily impressed back then than when he became an NBA player and faced Shaq and Hakeem. It's well known that great youth memories are hard to be erased and revalued more objectively, even when we grow older. Not to mention that the way this quote is phrased, it seems as if he thinks that 21 year old Sabonis was better than prime Hakeem/Shaq, not Hakeem/Shaq at the same age).

[nbacardDOTnet]

[millwad]

I find it amusing that people really use crappy videos like that to prove a point, Sabonis played in the freaking 80's and 90's and still people in this thread write quotes or short one sided videos instead of showing what really happened..

Sabonis Olympic career is overrated, first the myth of him "schooling" Robinson and then in all he just wasn't that impressive, just check his boxscores for all his olympic games;

http://www.sports-reference.com/olym...sabonis-1.html

All his high statistical games were against crappy teams beside the two games against Croatia and Yugoslavia.

Dude is flat out overrated..

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

Backtracking from your comments? Maybe you learned something after all, and no, "doing things that big men are not supposed to do like shoot 3's, run fast breaks and give behind the back passes" or "He should stick to being a center, not a 7-3 guard." cannot be interpreted in a positive spin.

If you didnt knew, fast breaks were bread and butter of centers like Bill Russell and Robinson, and being offense engine and passing hub is one of the major reasons why Russell had more rings than fingers, and when finally Wilt understood that, he got some rings too.


Most of your comments might be true in general, but have nothing to do with topic in hand, do you really want to claim you can evaluate Sabonis better than Pippen, Walton and others? I surely hope you dont claim that.


Dirk is incredible, just he never was as good as Sabonis, but at least will have a better NBA career.

Walton is known as one of the best passing centers in NBA history, and he specifically mentioned that Sabonis was better than him and others, thats quite a praise.

Bill Walton also said: "Show some respect to this living legend, this hall of famer...Arvydas Sabonis."
"Sabonis is the epitome of competitive greatness."

Btw, Radja and Divac played against prime Sabonis, and one more quote for your reading pleasure:

Vlade Divac said: " He's now 30 years old, but I remember him when I played against him when he was 21 or 22, he was the best center I ever saw in my life. I can say easy he was a better player than Shaq, Ewing, Hakeem. . . . I'm telling you, he was the best center I ever saw in my life. He was passing the ball, dribbling, shooting three-pointers, jumping. He did everything. Now he's lost his speed because of injury, but still he's a smart player. He knows basketball."

Here you go, another guy who not only saw, but played against prime Sabas, was quite passionate about his impressions.

I always enjoy reading your comments xcept when you talk about Sabonis.
I admit i didn't watch those USSR games in Seoul except vs.Yougoslavia (great performance in the clutch btw)but i did watch him a lot during '90s.
Large group of players that i truly respect point him as the best player they had to play against(Radja,Kukoc,Divac) .
I just can't see why.Also i don't understand why he's so undisputedly considered the best in Lithuania.It's not like you don't have good players.
When my country use to play vs.Lithuania in mid '90s
the biggest trouble was locking down Marchulonis(which was impossible).
Homichus was deadly as f*ck also,but Sabonis was managable.
I understand he had ruptured Achilles tendon on both legs and everything ,he was great passer ,shooter,had big IQ but he wasn't unstoppable and surely wasn't the best thing Europe had .

[rodman91]

Anybody who watched late 90's Portland unbias, knows how skilled sabonis was.You can watch from youtube as well.

He was great shooter.He was as good as guards from behind 3pt.
He had court vision of a very good playmaker.
He had better passing skills than most of guards.
He had great dribbling skills for such size.
He had great hook shots.
He was a huge mofo.
He was walking on the court.He looked like crippled when he tried to run.

What happened to Shaq,Hakeem when their legs couldn't carry anymore? What happened to Grant Hill,Penny,T-Mac? What's happening to Duncan & Garnett?

Basketball is not a chess.When the legs f.ked up, even great players are done.Sabonis did great with such crippled version of himself.Prime Sabonis was done in 88.He still had great career in Europe & decent career in NBA due to his skills even as a slow-motion player.

[Round Mound]

Barkley said it the Best

"Sabonis was a Great Player before injuries (1987 on), not good, but Great"

He had a Top 5 Center of All Time Potential before injuries

[millwad]

Barkley said it the Best

"Sabonis was a Great Player before injuries (1987 on), not good, but Great"

He had a Top 5 Center of All Time Potential before injuries

Exactly, he had the potential being the top 5 center of all time, but he was injured..

But as some of you claim, no, he's not in the top 5 center list of all time, just quit it..