The idea that elite point guards can't win NBA championships is false

[9erempiree]

Im starting to wonder if the dudes here even played rec league ball...

All the threads going around saying how "elite point guards cant win championships" proves right here that the majority of ISH has never played even high school basketball

Just because their player card on ESPN doesn't say "point guard" doesn't mean they aren't the point guard of the team.

If you ever played basketball, the point guard handles the team, and runs the offense.

Guys like LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, 06 dwyane wade, were the point guards of their teams.

Are you trying to say derek fisher, Mario charmers, and Jason Williams (the one that was washed up and spot up for 3s) were the floor generals for their teams?

Jeez, do you guys know anything bout ball?

By definition, those guys were point guards, and the best players on their teams

Im going on a rant because the majority of ISH thinks that elite point guards cant win championships, without even knowing what the hell a point guard is...

The funny things is, the majority of ISH isnt even trolling when saying this.
It disgusts me.

LeBron, Kobe, 06 Wade, were all the point guards on their championship team.

Chalmers/Fisher/Williams filled the wing slot on those teams, going through screens and waiting at the corners for 3s. These guys WERE NOT the point guards for their team!!!

Rant done

You are mistaking the two and the two are not the same thing, PG and the likes of Kobe, MJ, or even Wade. Don't mistake them as PG's because they are not. They won a championship because they are the best player.

There is ad difference between best player in the league versus best PG in the league.

CP3 isn't considered or getting notoriety because he's one of the best players in the game. He gets his fame for being the best PG. Same thing with Nash. Nash can't win a championship and he's an elite PG but he's not the best player in the game.

Elite PG's job is to spread the ball and run the offense. Kobe, MJ and Wade are the best players in the game. They are the offense. Don't count on elite PG's like Nash and CP3 to takeover a game because those guys are PG's and they need teammates to hit open shots to be productive to their scoring.

[Mr. Jabbar]

maybe the correct phrasing would be "cant win a ring nowadays with a go-to guy that averages double digit assists"

[9erempiree]

PG position is highly overrated when it comes to winning a championship. Just because Kobe is THE offense of the team, it doesn't make him a PG.

They both have different roles.

Kobe can get the offense going with his scoring and then look for the open guy but no coaches teach that kind of offense. That would be called ISO and not very productive.

PG's role is to find open guys and hit the eventual open J. They look to get others involve so their scoring prowess suck in that sense. So when teammates are not hitting their shots, takes a team to win a ring, the lack of scoring from these PG will hinder the team's ability to win.

Elite PG will never win a ring by themselves compared to other more important and valuable positions.

[9erempiree]

maybe the correct phrasing would be "cant win a ring nowadays with a go-to guy that averages double digit assists"

Perfect and I agree.

Especially when the "go-to guy" is someone who's job, is to "pass" to another guy.

Can't have "go-to guy" go to another guy.

[blood yes]

You are mistaking the two and the two are not the same thing, PG and the likes of Kobe, MJ, or even Wade. Don't mistake them as PG's because they are not. They won a championship because they are the best player.

There is ad difference between best player in the league versus best PG in the league.

CP3 isn't considered or getting notoriety because he's one of the best players in the game. He gets his fame for being the best PG. Same thing with Nash. Nash can't win a championship and he's an elite PG but he's not the best player in the game.

Elite PG's job is to spread the ball and run the offense. Kobe, MJ and Wade are the best players in the game. They are the offense. Don't count on elite PG's like Nash and CP3 to takeover a game because those guys are PG's and they need teammates to hit open shots to be productive to their scoring.

I think what you're forgetting though is that a point guard's job is NOT to just pass the ball around, it is literally to run the offense

When I played ball in HS, the point guard of our team was not much of a pass first guy, but he ran the offense, and did it well.

Dross, Westbrook, kyrie, and others are considered point guards

Kobe, wade, lebron, they are all just point guards that play a diff position because it would destroy their legs defending 5'10 dudes. They run the offense.

Point guard doesn't equal passer, remember that

[SacJB Shady]

Curry will probably win

[mrRager]

I think what you're forgetting though is that a point guard's job is NOT to just pass the ball around, it is literally to run the offense

When I played ball in HS, the point guard of our team was not much of a pass first guy, but he ran the offense, and did it well.

Dross, Westbrook, kyrie, and others are considered point guards

Kobe, wade, lebron, they are all just point guards that play a diff position because it would destroy their legs defending 5'10 dudes. They run the offense.

Point guard doesn't equal passer, remember that

theyre playmakers. i agree that you can win with an elite pg but its not necessary to have a chris paul running the show. i'd much rather have lebron handling the ball. and in addition, you can be a pg without being the best player on your team. if anything, because of salary implications i would prefer to have a solid pg with a star big man that can play both ends if the court. do you honestly believe cp3 will win a title as the best player on his team when he has blake griffin only? i think this is where people miscommunicate that elite pgs cant win because its not likely to have the best pg and the best bigman on the same roster.

[SpanishACB]

Hey OP, you'd save twice the effort if you pressed enter once instead of twice.
Also when people say elite pgs don't win championships they're actually refering to the fact it's rare to see it happen without a true elite big.
Of course that's not true anymore due to the nature of current new generation superstar players (no balls, no ego, need to team up).

[MARLO]

While I agree with the Title of this thread, I think the OP is being a little too general...

You're saying that you can't win a ring if your best player isn't your point guard and that since Lebron and Kobe, etc. were running the offense on their respective championship teams, they should be considered point guards?

Theoretically, the position a certain player plays is not set in stone.
Magic Johnson could play the 1 or the 5 spot.
Many Players have switched between positions.

[knicksman]

never knew 5 apg is considered elite

[MMM]

Rondo in 2008 was not an elite point guard. He was the 4th best player on his team

he was in 2010 and was a quarter away from a fMVP (not a great series but i doubt they would give it to Glen Davis or kobe on a losing team)

[Noyze]

Im starting to wonder if the dudes here even played rec league ball...

All the threads going around saying how "elite point guards cant win championships" proves right here that the majority of ISH has never played even high school basketball

Just because their player card on ESPN doesn't say "point guard" doesn't mean they aren't the point guard of the team.

If you ever played basketball, the point guard handles the team, and runs the offense.

Guys like LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, 06 dwyane wade, were the point guards of their teams.

Are you trying to say derek fisher, Mario charmers, and Jason Williams (the one that was washed up and spot up for 3s) were the floor generals for their teams?

Jeez, do you guys know anything bout ball?

By definition, those guys were point guards, and the best players on their teams

Im going on a rant because the majority of ISH thinks that elite point guards cant win championships, without even knowing what the hell a point guard is...

The funny things is, the majority of ISH isnt even trolling when saying this.
It disgusts me.

LeBron, Kobe, 06 Wade, were all the point guards on their championship team.

Chalmers/Fisher/Williams filled the wing slot on those teams, going through screens and waiting at the corners for 3s. These guys WERE NOT the point guards for their team!!!

Rant done

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=321211

You just said the same shit in that thread. You say the same point the same way like a 12 year old.

[BoutPractice]

If you're defining players in terms of function instead of position, then you could say it's more a question of size than position: LeBron, Magic, Kobe, Pippen, Wade, Oscar, Jerry West, they're all 6-4 or more. You can add Dennis Johnson, Jason Kidd for actual PGs... Teams with taller playmakers whatever the position tend to win more historically. NBA fans often underestimate the importance of size because the obvious advantage of taller players seems somewhat "unfair" to them (even though things like athleticism are just as unfair). It's also easier to win if your playmaker isn't too ball dominant, though there are exceptions for truly elite players... but in particular the historical trend is that ball dominant playmakers around 6-0 almost never lead their teams to championships.

[VIntageNOvel]

If you're defining players in terms of function instead of position, then you could say it's more a question of size than position: LeBron, Magic, Kobe, Pippen, Wade, Oscar, Jerry West, they're all 6-4 or more. You can add Dennis Johnson, Jason Kidd for actual PGs... Teams with taller playmakers whatever the position tend to win more historically. NBA fans often underestimate the importance of size because the obvious advantage of taller players seems somewhat "unfair" to them (even though things like athleticism are just as unfair). It's also easier to win if your playmaker isn't too ball dominant, though there are exceptions for truly elite players... but in particular the historical trend is that ball dominant playmakers around 6-0 almost never lead their teams to championships.

tl dr version

nah more like, you cant win a ring with undersize/short player (usually at PG position) as your go to guy

[iTare]

What he's trying to say is that it doesn't matter how many assists or what 'position' they play. He's saying that the 'real' point guard is whoever the offense is going through. Which now a days is an elite wing player.