2002 WCF Game 6 - Every 4th Quarter Foul

[Rose]

I agree with most of your analysis on this. But there's a few I disagree with #12. In my eyes is pretty undefendable. And there's a couple ticky-tack fouls. that I think can go either way. but too me, it's the 4th quarter number fouls comparison. I'm not saying the Kings DIDNT foul. They did some of the time. BUT I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a few uncalled ones on the Lakers. Not that Webber would have hit any.

[Batz]

I agree with most of your analysis on this. But there's a few I disagree with #12. In my eyes is pretty undefendable. And there's a couple ticky-tack fouls. that I think can go either way. but too me, it's the 4th quarter number fouls comparison. I'm not saying the Kings DIDNT foul. They did some of the time. BUT I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a few uncalled ones on the Lakers. Not that Webber would have hit any.

How about you go and pick out those 'missed calls' and em tacks ya lazy bum.

[ukplayer4]

If Lakers fans can't admit that game 6 was a one sided game....well...its pathetic.

It goes beyond just specific calls as well. There is a level of frustration that comes from playing a tough team and getting jobbed by the refs as well. And you won't get that through isolated plays. There was a reason why so many people in the sports world (fans, players, and writers) all agree that something was fishy in game 6.

Not to mention of course that Donaghy claimed it was rigged...and he seems to be right way more often than wrong about his allegations..etc.

Much like game 5 in the 2006 finals, game 6 of the 02 wcf was a horribly one sided game and the refs had way too big of an impact in determining the winner.

But of course this ISH and Lakers fans. You have to debate facts with them constantly.

i completely agree, i watched all games of the series at the time. laker fans pointing to things like- "oh the series was pretty even in terms of ft's" and "lots of those calls are just tough debatable calls" are just missing the point. i have watched every finals since 96 and i have listened to all the garbage about 06 and 2010(although the officiating suddenely went back to touch fouls in the 4th allowing the lakers to get back from a double digit deficit, but lets not get into that). i have never thought much about the conspiracy theorists who come out and claim each series/games are rigged even with strange ft disparity(mavs/heat) or bad officiating but GAME 6 2002 WESTERN CONFERENCE WAS ****ING RIGGED. they didnt technically hand the lakers the series and title there and then but that is effectively what happened. game 7 was fine- the kings should have won, they chocked it away in ot, peja was tossing up air balls, all of that i agree with but there would have never been a game 7 if the refs didnt force it by robbing the kings of game 6.
all of those calls such as the cristie on kobe foul you can make an argument and say well theres contact its a tough call(its actually just good d but whatever) to the official it could have looked 50/50. well heres the thing, these things happened about 100 times a quarter, several times a possession probably. if every bit of incidental contact is used to justify a whistle and in every case it only ever favors the lakers that is just one of the many ways the refs allowed the lakers to win this game. you cannot overcome things like that. the kings were clearly the better team, its a traversty, poloticians have ordered investigations, a ref has actually admited as much. its the biggest misjustice in the history of the nba lets just move on.... if it hadnt been for bad luck horrys three/samaki walkers after the buzzer half court shot that counted the kings win that series 4-1. if it wasnt for rigged game 6 they still win 4-2. everything had to favor the lakers, they got handed a game and extremely lucky, i think this is why everyone is so bitter about that series.

[EricForman]

"rigged" is too strong a word. I don't think Stern sat in a dark room and told his minions "the Lakers must win this series" from the get go.

i believe there was a mandate to suggest favoritism to push for a game 7 (once game 7 came it was all fair, so league still gave Sac a chance lol).

this happens with the Lakers alot in the early 2000s. there's one game against Minnesota in 2003 (after the league CHANGED PLAYOFF FORMATS MIDSEASON because Lakers were stumbling and looked like they may be a low seed) where Wally Szwlkjkwelkejlkjsglkjsg ran after Kobe on a fastbreak, and right when Kobe went up, Wally put both arms up to show "look i ain't touching him" and then a whistle was still blown. That was game 2 or 3. I forgot. KG fouled out on a touch call too but the Wolves won miraculously thanks to Gary Trent or ssomeone of that sort who hit a bunch of ridiculous shots. Simmons mentioned that in a column years ago. That Wally "two arms up" call was pretty hilarious in replays.

here's a video of another Wally/Kobe call from that series (not THE one I just mentioned though, couldn't find it) but if you read the comments, many people still remember the calls hahaha http://youtu.be/5XS1r0svFuQ

[Droid101]

i completely agree, i watched all games of the series at the time. laker fans pointing to things like- "oh the series was pretty even in terms of ft's" and "lots of those calls are just tough debatable calls" are just missing the point. i have watched every finals since 96 and i have listened to all the garbage about 06 and 2010(although the officiating suddenely went back to touch fouls in the 4th allowing the lakers to get back from a double digit deficit, but lets not get into that). i have never thought much about the conspiracy theorists who come out and claim each series/games are rigged even with strange ft disparity(mavs/heat) or bad officiating but GAME 6 2002 WESTERN CONFERENCE WAS ****ING RIGGED. they didnt technically hand the lakers the series and title there and then but that is effectively what happened. game 7 was fine- the kings should have won, they chocked it away in ot, peja was tossing up air balls, all of that i agree with but there would have never been a game 7 if the refs didnt force it by robbing the kings of game 6.
all of those calls such as the cristie on kobe foul you can make an argument and say well theres contact its a tough call(its actually just good d but whatever) to the official it could have looked 50/50. well heres the thing, these things happened about 100 times a quarter, several times a possession probably. if every bit of incidental contact is used to justify a whistle and in every case it only ever favors the lakers that is just one of the many ways the refs allowed the lakers to win this game. you cannot overcome things like that. the kings were clearly the better team, its a traversty, poloticians have ordered investigations, a ref has actually admited as much. its the biggest misjustice in the history of the nba lets just move on.... if it hadnt been for bad luck horrys three/samaki walkers after the buzzer half court shot that counted the kings win that series 4-1. if it wasnt for rigged game 6 they still win 4-2. everything had to favor the lakers, they got handed a game and extremely lucky, i think this is why everyone is so bitter about that series.

Go watch game 5 and then come back here.

[Doctor Rivers]

If Lakers fans can't admit that game 6 was a one sided game....well...its pathetic.

It goes beyond just specific calls as well. There is a level of frustration that comes from playing a tough team and getting jobbed by the refs as well. And you won't get that through isolated plays. There was a reason why so many people in the sports world (fans, players, and writers) all agree that something was fishy in game 6.

Not to mention of course that Donaghy claimed it was rigged...and he seems to be right way more often than wrong about his allegations..etc.

Much like game 5 in the 2006 finals, game 6 of the 02 wcf was a horribly one sided game and the refs had way too big of an impact in determining the winner.

But of course this ISH and Lakers fans. You have to debate facts with them constantly.

you obviously didn't get the point of this thread

[chazzy]

Can people start listing these other missed calls that the Lakers got away with in that quarter? I'll take a look at them and add them to the list.

[tpols]

here's a video of another Wally/Kobe call from that series (not THE one I just mentioned though, couldn't find it) but if you read the comments, many people still remember the calls hahaha http://youtu.be/5XS1r0svFuQ

That happens all the time in the NBA.

The ONLY reason Wally put his hands up like that was to compensate for the fact that he just fouled Kobe.. you see it all the time. A player fouls someone and then shoots their arms up into the air acting like they were there the whole time.

The fact is Wally ran into Kobe[even if it was slight contact] with his arms pointed outwards, Kobe sold it, and then Wally tried to act like he didnt do anything by raising his arms after the play was over.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Great post, chazzy. I pretty much agree with your analysis. I've never bought the conspiracy theories, and there are a lot of weak arguments and double standards from those that support such theories.

And at using Tim Donaghy to support the fixed theory. He has numerous reasons to lie(to make himself not look as bad, sell a book ect.) and given what we know about him, he certainly doesn't seem like a guy who would be above lying. And he certainly picked an easy target in that 2002 WCF which fans have been bitching about for years, not like he picked one that was never suspected.

In other words, his claims don't prove anything.

[D.J.]

What the OP doesn't include is the non-calls from the Lakers side that game. Shaq got away with quite a few elbows that game.

[chazzy]

Bump. Updated the youtube links since the original was taken down.

[zizozain]

Bump. Updated the youtube links since the original was taken down.

OP: good job
laker haters: middle finger