Is Nash the worst defender ever to win a MVP?

[JtotheIzzo]

Dirk was a fine candidate as well.

But Shaq in 2005 was totally robbed. You're traded for 3 players, and team goes .500 ish 4th seed to the best record in the conference, legit title contender. And you give a guy who averaged 15/10 the MVP?

and that differs from Nash how?

Oh yeah, Nash's team dropped an All Star point guard, put him in and went from 29 wins to 62 wins.

Funny how that metric works with Shaq but not with Nash.



Biased

[Shepseskaf]

and that differs from Nash how?

Oh yeah, Nash's team dropped an All Star point guard, put him in and went from 29 wins to 62 wins.

Funny how that metric works with Shaq but not with Nash.



Biased

No one is biased. He's speaking the truth.

The answer to your question lies in taking a deeper look into the Suns' 29-win season. That's what anyone who justifies Nash's '05 MVP points to.

The fact is that the 2003-04 Suns went through a year of internal turmoil and injury. A coach got fired in-season and Amar'e got hurt. The bottom line is that the team was actually much better than 29 wins.

Even if Nash hadn't joined, a healthy Amar'e and a stable coaching situation would have resulted in a big jump in team wins during the 2004-05 season.

Nash was a big part of the resurgence, but not nearly enough -- given his individual stats -- to be given the MVP over a legend like Shaq. It never should have happened -- and wouldn't have, if not for PR reasons.

[scm5]

Worst defender, or worst player?


He may be both.

Iverson is right there with him in terms of worst player to win MVP.

Nash got 16/3/12 on 50% in 05' and 19/4/11 on 51%FG... 50/40/90 year in 06'.

Iverson's 31/4/5 on 42% shooting is horrible. Especially considering 26FGA/10FTA per game... he just might be the worst out of the bunch to me.

Let's consider that 2FTA = 1 possession. That's 31 possessions to score 31 points. That's ridiculous!

Overall, Iverson was the worst MVP. In terms of defense, Nash is the worst defender to win MVP.

[PJR]

and that differs from Nash how?

Oh yeah, Nash's team dropped an All Star point guard, put him in and went from 29 wins to 62 wins.

Funny how that metric works with Shaq but not with Nash.



Biased

Nash averaged 15/10!

15/10 is MVP-esque dominance?

It was a complete JOKE. Shaq was the best player in the league, showing flashes of prime Shaq, and averaged 23/10/2.7apg/2.8bpg.

Straight up joke.

[chazzy]

People put too much stock in PG defense. And it shouldn't be shocking Nash won in 06 because he lost Amare and Joe Johnson from the previous year and the Suns were still an offensive juggernaut and #2 seed.. MVP is heavily influenced by narratives.

It's just that in the bigger picture, Nash's level of play doesn't match the other players who have multiple MVPs.. and it's even worse when you look at all the players who have 1 or 0 MVPS. That's why I don't need to put heavy stock in this award for the seasons I've seen, I can determine for myself who the best players of each year were.

[Just2McFly]

Iverson is right there with him in terms of worst player to win MVP.

Nash got 16/3/12 on 50% in 05' and 19/4/11 on 51%FG... 50/40/90 year in 06'.

Iverson's 31/4/5 on 42% shooting is horrible. Especially considering 26FGA/10FTA per game... he just might be the worst out of the bunch to me.

Let's consider that 2FTA = 1 possession. That's 31 possessions to score 31 points. That's ridiculous!

Overall, Iverson was the worst MVP. In terms of defense, Nash is the worst defender to win MVP.

Let's compare the 01 Sixers to the 05 and 06 Suns. Stop being stupid, Iverson's impact was otherworldly.

[Shepseskaf]

Iverson is right there with him in terms of worst player to win MVP.

You should be banned for comparing Iverson with Nash.

Did Nash ever put a team on his back and take them to the Finals? No.

Did he ever singlehandedly defeat one of the best playoff teams ever in the Finals. No.

I like Nash, but he and Iverson are on totally different tiers as players.

[JtotheIzzo]

No one is biased. He's speaking the truth.

The answer to your question lies in taking a deeper look into the Suns' 29-win season. That's what anyone who justifies Nash's '05 MVP points to.

The fact is that the 2003-04 Suns went through a year of internal turmoil and injury. A coach got fired in-season and Amar'e got hurt. The bottom line is that the team was actually much better than 29 wins.

Even if Nash hadn't joined, a healthy Amar'e and a stable coaching situation would have resulted in a big jump in team wins during the 2004-05 season.

Nash was a big part of the resurgence, but not nearly enough -- given his individual stats -- to be given the MVP over a legend like Shaq. It never should have happened -- and wouldn't have, if not for PR reasons.

It was debatable whether Shaq or D Wade was the best player on their team, so acting like Shaq saved Miami is a bit of a stretch, they made some noise in the playoffs the year before he got there.

Reality is Shaq only got em one round deeper in the playoffs. Nash took a 29 win team and made them a 62 win team.

Yeah yeah yeah, I know you guys aren't biased or anything, those two situations are basically the same.

[fpliii]

People put too much stock in PG defense. And it shouldn't be shocking Nash won in 06 because he lost Amare and Joe Johnson from the previous year and the Suns were still an offensive juggernaut and #2 seed.. MVP is heavily influenced by narratives.

It's just that in the bigger picture, Nash's level of play doesn't match the other players who have multiple MVPs.. and it's even worse when you look at all the players who have 1 or 0 MVPS. That's why I don't need to put heavy stock in this award for the seasons I've seen, I can determine for myself who the best players of each year were.

In general, if your PG is your best perimeter defender, your team is probably in trouble on that end. Don't get me wrong, I don't want my guy being a complete liability, but his team-level offensive contributions are much, much, more important IMO.

[chazzy]

Nash averaged 15/10!

15/10 is MVP-esque dominance?

It was a complete JOKE. Shaq was the best player in the league, showing flashes of prime Shaq averaged 23/10/2.7apg/2.8bpg.

Straight up joke.

Nash's impact goes beyond his raw numbers. Look at the Suns' offensive jump from 04 to 05 and the amount of player retention there was.

@Shep - Wade breaking out had a big impact as well if you're going to use Amare

[JtotheIzzo]

You should be banned for comparing Iverson with Nash.

Did Nash ever put a team on his back and take them to the Finals? No.

Did he ever singlehandedly defeat one of the best playoff teams ever in the Finals. No.

I like Nash, but he and Iverson are on totally different tiers as players.

Your grandmother and her friends could have made their way through that Eastern conference, f*ckin hell, Vince Carter was a quarter inch away from knocking out the Sixers, don't act like what he did was special, they would have been first round fodder in the West.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk was a fine candidate as well.

But Shaq in 2005 was totally robbed. You're traded for 3 players, and team goes .500 ish 4th seed to the best record in the conference, legit title contender. And you give a guy who averaged 15/10 the MVP?

I was talking about the 06 season...not 05.

[JtotheIzzo]

Nash averaged 15/10!

15/10 is MVP-esque dominance?

It was a complete JOKE. Shaq was the best player in the league, showing flashes of prime Shaq averaged 23/10/2.7apg/2.8bpg.

Straight up joke.

Why did Wade lead the Heat in scoring and take all the big shots if Shaq was so dominant, why did he only get them one round further in the playoffs if he was so dominant that season?

I can continue to put aside all your nonsense, and you can keep coming back yelling and claiming no bias.

Its trollish though.

[Nick Young]

AI was worse.

But yeh, Nash's 2 MVPs belong to the mamba

[PJR]

Nash's impact goes beyond his raw numbers. Look at the Suns' offensive jump from 04 to 05 and the amount of player retention there was.

@Shep - Wade breaking out had a big impact as well if you're going to use Amare

I don't deny Nash's on court impact on that team.

But the MVP isn't an intanigbles award. Individual statistical dominance matters.

If Nash put up 2008 Chris Paul type numbers, I wouldn't have much of a problem. But 15/10? To go with porous defense? It's a disgrace.