Does James Harden

[DJ Leon Smith]

The "oh if he tried he could play defence he could" argument sucks. That would be like anyone of us saying "oh if I tried I could shoot 50 percent from three". Either do it or shut the **** up. He doesn't do it so you can't argue he potentially could if he wanted to.

[russwest0]

I'll have to dig around because I don't recall hearing or seeing anything about wanting to start. I'll admit though, I was a Harden fan and not really an OKC fan.

Fisher was good at defense at the time and Ibaka was too. He didn't throw just anybody at him. That was the best he had available to him.

Coaches can also make you play harder. You left that part out for whatever reason. I obviously put more blame on Harden than I do McHale for his lack of effort, but if Harden doesn't fix it then you have to go to the person that's allowing him to do so. McHale isn't good at offense or defense. He's just there to make dumb subs and stupid lineup changes. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Like I told Millbuck, hopefully you only have to see me bring up a better coach for one more season.

nah bro I agree with you to an extent. McHale sucks balls too, he's just like Brooks

I can just tell you as an OKC fan that Harden wasn't "beloved" by the well informed fans here. There is a well known story that after game 1 of the Finals when OKC won, the whole team was celebrating in the lockeroom, except for Harden who was complaining that he didn't get enough touches.

The guy simply isn't a winner by any stretch of the imagination and for me and who I am, I just can't respect that.

[Mr Exlax]

The "oh if he tried he could play defence he could" argument sucks. That would be like anyone of us saying "oh if I tried I could shoot 50 percent from three". Either do it or shut the **** up. He doesn't do it so you can't argue he potentially could if he wanted to.

How many Rockets games have you watched? Not just highlights and shit, but entire games. You'd see he can and does play ok defense. His ability is not really in question. It's his consistency or the lack of it. Did you read the entire thing or just kinda skimmed through it?

[russwest0]

The "oh if he tried he could play defence he could" argument sucks. That would be like anyone of us saying "oh if I tried I could shoot 50 percent from three". Either do it or shut the **** up. He doesn't do it so you can't argue he potentially could if he wanted to.

yeah lol it's like the LeBron stans who say shit like "He's an elite defender when he wants to be" or some retarded shit.

like almost all of the guys in the NBA are elite athletes, what they do when they "want to" doesn't mean shit.

[DJ Leon Smith]

How many Rockets games have you watched? Not just highlights and shit, but entire games. You'd see he can and does play ok defense. His ability is not really in question. It's his consistency or the lack of it. Did you read the entire thing or just kinda skimmed through it?

You just admitted to exactly what I was arguing. Thank you

[Mr Exlax]

nah bro I agree with you to an extent. McHale sucks balls too, he's just like Brooks

I can just tell you as an OKC fan that Harden wasn't "beloved" by the well informed fans here. There is a well known story that after game 1 of the Finals when OKC won, the whole team was celebrating in the lockeroom, except for Harden who was complaining that he didn't get enough touches.

The guy simply isn't a winner by any stretch of the imagination and for me and who I am, I just can't respect that.

I can dig it. I was beyond excited when we got him. He was already my second or third favorite player in the NBA. The first year I was still pumped because he was our entire offense. This last season though, I've come to hate the guy. I'm ok with taking a break on defense from time to time. That happens when you're the number 1 option. He put 0 effort on D too many times and it burns me up. He's on my team under contract for a while so all I can do is hope he comes on with it.

[Mr Exlax]

You just admitted to exactly what I was arguing. Thank you

You're welcome I guess. The way you worded it I was under the impression that you were saying he doesn't have the ability to play good defense. You said nothing about his lack of consistency. When he tries to play defense, he's good at it. I don't really follow the point you were trying to make i guess.

[russwest0]

I can dig it. I was beyond excited when we got him. He was already my second or third favorite player in the NBA. The first year I was still pumped because he was our entire offense. This last season though, I've come to hate the guy. I'm ok with taking a break on defense from time to time. That happens when you're the number 1 option. He put 0 effort on D too many times and it burns me up. He's on my team under contract for a while so all I can do is hope he comes on with it.

yeah even with Durant, the trolls on here act like he is a bad defender but he has statistically been a great 1 on 1 defender these past 2 years, he just needs to improve his help defense awareness.

I remember seeing young Durant vs the Nuggets in the playoffs kill them with scoring down the stretch AND get a few clutch blocks defensively.... Hell he also locked up Kobe in 2012 down the stretch of a few games which was HUGE...

Maybe with some luck Harden will have some sort of breakthrough defensive moment or some shit, I don't know man all I can say is that if I was a Rocket fan I would be calling for the GM's head right now.

I'd much rather have

Adams, McGary, Lamb
+
Some HIGH lottery picks
+
whatever you could have traded Martin for

than Harden on a max deal with these first round exits year after year.

[Mr Exlax]

yeah lol it's like the LeBron stans who say shit like "He's an elite defender when he wants to be" or some retarded shit.

like almost all of the guys in the NBA are elite athletes, what they do when they "want to" doesn't mean shit.

I've seen LeBron lock Durant down for some long stretches. Lock him down down. LeBron wasn't floating around on defense or doing all of the playmaking in those stretches though. I think that's what he's gonna be doing this season since he won't have to do everything in Clevland. I think he's an elite defender when he puts the effort into it.

[3peated]

I like to think defense is the difference between an all-star and a superstar.

[Mr Exlax]

yeah even with Durant, the trolls on here act like he is a bad defender but he has statistically been a great 1 on 1 defender these past 2 years, he just needs to improve his help defense awareness.

I remember seeing young Durant vs the Nuggets in the playoffs kill them with scoring down the stretch AND get a few clutch blocks defensively.... Hell he also locked up Kobe in 2012 down the stretch of a few games which was HUGE...

Maybe with some luck Harden will have some sort of breakthrough defensive moment or some shit, I don't know man all I can say is that if I was a Rocket fan I would be calling for the GM's head right now.

I'd much rather have

Adams, McGary, Lamb
+
Some HIGH lottery picks
+
whatever you could have traded Martin for

than Harden on a max deal with these first round exits year after year.

Ehh Harden gets key stops from time to time. Good blocks or steals in the 4th quarter. Even contesting shots in the 4th. He just has to do it for 4 quarters. Rarely do any of his defensive lapses come in the 4th quarter. That's what's so frustrating.

[Mr Exlax]

I like to think defense is the difference between an all-star and a superstar.

I agree. I cringed when I heard he was anywhere in the MVP voting and NBA First Team voting.

[stephanieg]

A lot of the players that it lists as middling could actually be pretty good. I remember when Pierce and Ray Ray went to the C's people were like oh no they can't play defense! But then they were pretty awesome, especially in the playoffs. Pierce plays LeBron pretty well.

But then you could say oh, they had KG and Perkins so they could be more aggressive on the perimeter. Which is true. And Harden has Dwight.

[Mr Exlax]

A lot of the players that it lists as middling could actually be pretty good. I remember when Pierce and Ray Ray went to the C's people were like oh no they can't play defense! But then they were pretty awesome, especially in the playoffs. Pierce plays LeBron pretty well.

But then you could say oh, they had KG and Perkins so they could be more aggressive on the perimeter. Which is true. And Harden has Dwight.

Makes perfect sense. I really expected him to come on with it since Dwight was there. Maybe that's why he and Parsons got even worse on defense. Just like whatever since D12 is back there. I watched it happen a ton in Orlando.

[PsychoBe]

haren's defense is so bad it makes him less of a human being.