Wilt Chamberlain once scored 14 points with 25 FTA

[The Iron Sheik]

It looks he had 4 FG, not 4 FGA. But they don't count a shot as an FGA when you get fouled anyway....

they did back when wilt played. that wasn't always a rule

[AirFederer]

But..but..100 points game..50" inch vert...mountain lion...



Great post!


Wilt gets credit for his individual records and two rings, and rightly so, but he has NO case for GOAT.

i've probably seen more wilt film than 95% of the users of this site. I'm just tired of having this crap constantly coming up and flooding the front page. Just make a subforum or a 500 page wilt-thread. Even lebron vs kobe vs durant in silk vs joyner fashion is more entertaining than a single post of julizer/jlauber/cavsftw.

Wilt is a top athletic 5 talent, too bad he mentally matured really late in his career. To say he wasn't the godfather of the "check my stats" movement is asinine, his selfishness and selfcenterness are well documented, from not participating in training sessions and putting the night life above the game to clashing with coaching and zoning out in key moments of the game. His leadership was non-existent. He makes kobe look like a model teammate, as he alienated his colleagues. These are all "details" that cost teams rings. He did adapt his game to mesh with other great player but did so only at the end of his career, he had many other opportunities, so your argument is misleading.
He also chocked really hard in the playoffs were he has a well documented HUGE drop in production, which just reinforces my point of him being weak mentally.

I'm not extremely impressed by his game, his rebounding and defense would excellently translate in today's game (and in any era) but his offensive game would not. Also, adjusted to per possession his numbers are excellent but not godly. That's saying others were better or came close. Furthermore his head to head record against worthy adversaries isn't the greatest, we might even call it underwhelming compared to his apparent dominance. As I previously said he had zero leadership skills and he didn't impact that game from a mental standpoint (a staple point of true winners..). Imo he'd be easily frustrated by mentally superior players in the 80s/90s/00s.

He was perfect for his era's run-n-gun style of play but all time he is wildly overrated. Peak shaq, kareem, hakeem, duncan are superior bigs, with superior careers, which would also fare better in the 80s/90s/00s/10s while doing comparable work in the 60s/70s because of superior skills, adaptability, coachability or intelligence.

The argument of bringing him up with modern means and training is moot, too many variables. The true what if with wilt is "what if he truly cared about winning?".

Imo this is all the evidence a serious basketball fan needs to properly label wilt as a goat athletic talent but as a career loser and underachiever.Top 10 all-time athlete? sure. Top 10 all-time basketball player? no way.

god bless.

[CP343]

Damn, his ft shooting is like Kobe's fg shooting.

[Psileas]

Damn. Straight ethering these Wilt stans.

Rambling on is not ethering. I've seen "Wilt stans" make posts way bigger than that which got minimal to no replies.

[Deuce Bigalow]

I have found the game, which was played on 12/12/1967 and it was vs Supesonics. It seems there is a mistake in the boxscore and all of the "mistake" was added to Wilt's FTAs ? A photo of the scanned boxscore ...



Here Wilt is 6 from 15 and his additional stat line is 27 rebounds, 5 assists, 4-13 FGA, Sixers won the game ...

His teams FTA only adds up to 49 with Wilt only having 15 attempts

6/25 damn finally someone beat Kobe

[CavaliersFTW]

I have found the game, which was played on 12/12/1967 and it was vs Supesonics. It seems there is a mistake in the boxscore and all of the "mistake" was added to Wilt's FTAs ? A photo of the scanned boxscore ...



Here Wilt is 6 from 15 and his additional stat line is 27 rebounds, 5 assists, 4-13 FGA, Sixers won the game ...

/thread

[Megabox!]

no arguments -> post meltdown/salt/rent free -> you mad. You got so ethered you don't even know what to do tbh.

RIP Wilt stans

[LAZERUSS]

i've probably seen more wilt film than 95% of the users of this site. I'm just tired of having this crap constantly coming up and flooding the front page. Just make a subforum or a 500 page wilt-thread. Even lebron vs kobe vs durant in silk vs joyner fashion is more entertaining than a single post of julizer/jlauber/cavsftw.

Wilt is a top athletic 5 talent, too bad he mentally matured really late in his career. To say he wasn't the godfather of the "check my stats" movement is asinine, his selfishness and selfcenterness are well documented, from not participating in training sessions and putting the night life above the game to clashing with coaching and zoning out in key moments of the game. His leadership was non-existent. He makes kobe look like a model teammate, as he alienated his colleagues. These are all "details" that cost teams rings. He did adapt his game to mesh with other great player but did so only at the end of his career, he had many other opportunities, so your argument is misleading.
He also chocked really hard in the playoffs were he has a well documented HUGE drop in production, which just reinforces my point of him being weak mentally.

I'm not extremely impressed by his game, his rebounding and defense would excellently translate in today's game (and in any era) but his offensive game would not. Also, adjusted to per possession his numbers are excellent but not godly. That's saying others were better or came close. Furthermore his head to head record against worthy adversaries isn't the greatest, we might even call it underwhelming compared to his apparent dominance. As I previously said he had zero leadership skills and he didn't impact that game from a mental standpoint (a staple point of true winners..). Imo he'd be easily frustrated by mentally superior players in the 80s/90s/00s.

He was perfect for his era's run-n-gun style of play but all time he is wildly overrated. Peak shaq, kareem, hakeem, duncan are superior bigs, with superior careers, which would also fare better in the 80s/90s/00s/10s while doing comparable work in the 60s/70s because of superior skills, adaptability, coachability or intelligence.

The argument of bringing him up with modern means and training is moot, too many variables. The true what if with wilt is "what if he truly cared about winning?".

Imo this is all the evidence a serious basketball fan needs to properly label wilt as a goat athletic talent but as a career loser and underachiever.Top 10 all-time athlete? sure. Top 10 all-time basketball player? no way.

god bless.

You have seen more film of Wilt than 95% of the users on this site? I highly doubt it. But even if you have seen 100% of the footage that exists on Wilt, you have seen less than 2% of his NBA career. Furthermore, in the less-than-2% of Wilt footage that we do have...not ONE 40+ point game, unless you want to count the limited footage of the '62 ALLSTAR GAME in which he scored 42 points on 17-23 shooting from the field. BTW, while Wilt shot .739 in that game, the rest of the entire all-stars combined shot... .408.

In any case, where is the footage of Wilt's other 271 40+ point games? How about his 132 30-30 games? Chamberlain put up 32 60+ point games, but how about the footage of even ONE of the FOUR in which he shot .700+ from the field? How about just one of his FIFTEEN 40+ rebound games? Playoffs you ask? How about just ONE of his THREE 50+ point "must-win" playoff games? Or maybe the "must-win" Finals game in which he hung 45 points, on 20-27 shooting, with 27 rebounds? How about any one of his THREE highest FG% games in NBA history (games of 15-15, 16-16, and even 18-18 from the field...as well as another in which he made 18 straight and went 18-19 from the field.) How about the nationally televised game, in which SI recorded every blocked shot, and those 23 blocks are far-and-away better than the actual NBA record of 17 (oh, and BTW, there is documentation of Chamberlain blocking 30+ shots on three more occasions, as well as numerous games of 20+)? How about his 22-25-21 game (yes, 21 assists), or maybe his 16-30-19 PLAYOFF game?

The "selfish" Wilt who did whatever his COACHES asked? It was NOT Wilt's idea to score 50 ppg in '62, but rather his COACH, Frank McGuire, who had taken one look around at the pathetic cast of clowns that Wilt was playing with and decided his only hope was for Chamberlain to take 40 FGAs per game. Oh, and Wilt took that same roster, the core of which was the same LAST PLACE POS roster he inherited in his rookie season, only older and worse, thru the first round of the playoffs, and then to a game seven, two point loss, against the HOF-laden 60-20 Celtics...and in a playoff run in which his teammates collectively shot .354 from the field.

BTW, in that 50 ppg season...how much did Wilt's TEAMMATES think of Wilt? You tell me...

How about his TEAMMATE in that '62 season, Al Attles (one of the most respected figures in NBA history BTW)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTTwY_QqZ7c


Oh, and a couple of years later Chamberlain took the same roster that had gone 34-46 the year before he arrived, thru a first round romp over Oscar's stacked 48-32 Royals, and then to a game seven, one point loss, against the 62-18 Celtics at the peak of their dynasty...in a series in which Chamberlain carpet-bombed Russell with a 30.1, 31.4 rpg, .555 FG% series. Probably the most one-sided beatdown of another Top-10 player all-time.

Or the Wilt, when finally given an equal roster, and that was healthy, that led his Sixers to a 4-1 blowout of the eight-time defending Celtics (they were a mere four points away from sweeping game four BTW), in a series in which Chamberlain annihilated Russell in every facet of the game?

The reality was, Chamberlain did whatever his COACHES asked of him, even the several incompetent or lazy ones. Of course, all you have read has been the lies and falsehoods that Bill Simmons spewed, ALL of which have been TRASHED here many times. No other "GOAT" candidate was asked to change their games as much as Wilt was in his career.

Continued...

[LAZERUSS]

Continuing...

Leadership? Chamberlain played every minute of the seven game EDF's in '68, with several injuries, including the same injury which reduced Willis Reed to a statue in the last three games of the '70 Finals (most of which he missed.) EVERY MINUTE...and NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout that series. How did a one-legged Wilt perform in that series... 22-25-7.

Or how about Chamberlain coming back WAY AHEAD of even the most optimistic medical opinion in the '70 post-season, and only four months after MAJOR KNEE SURGERY? He knew he wasn't 100%, but he came back because he didn't want to let his teammates down. Of course, not only did he comeback, he was LA's best player in that post-season, and the only Laker who played well in that game seven loss to the heavily-favored Knicks.

Oh, how about game's four and five of the '72 Finals? Late in game four, and saddled with five fouls, Chamberlain blocked two shots down the stretch that sealed the win. However, he had fallen awkwardly on one of them, and FRACTURED his wrist. Now, think about this...Kareem missed CHUNKS of TWO separate seasons with broken wrists. Guess what...Chamberlain not only played in game five (and with BOTH wrists heavily-bandaged...he had sprained the other as well), he DOMINATED the game. 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds (the entire NY team had 39 BTW), with 8 blocked shots...en route to winning a FMVP.

You are not impressed by Wilt's OFFENSE????

Then you have NOT seen nearly all of Wilt's existing footage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

And I KNOW you haven't seen CavsFan's "documentary" on Wilt, either...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B7jVTJ_CIE

The REALITY was, a PRIME Chamberlain faced SEVERAL of the same centers that a PRIME Kareem would face a few years later...and a PRIME Wilt was FAR more dominant against Reed, Thurmond, Imhoff, Dierking, and Bellamy.

Furthermore, in their ONE H2H in which Wilt battled Kareem before he shredded his knee, he waxed Kareem in EVERY facet of the game. Hell, a 34 year old Wilt, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, outplayed Kareem in the majority of their ten H2H's (including five in the post-season.)

And your LAUGHABLE take in his "head to head record against worthy adversaries isn't the greatest"...

In his MANY H2H's with Thurmond, Reed, Russell, and Bellamy...a PRIME Chamberlain just SLAUGHTERED them. I challenge you to prove otherwise.

Scoring? Chamberlain was leading the league in scoring in the '70 season when he shredded his knee...and at 32.2 ppg (on a .579 FG%..and with 20 rpg.) Rookie Kareem averaged 28.8 ppg that same season, and at his peak, Kareem averaged 34.8 ppg. A PRIME Chamberlain would have scoffed at "only' 35 ppg.

He also chocked really hard in the playoffs were he has a well documented HUGE drop in production, which just reinforces my point of him being weak mentally

BLATANT LIES. You do realize that Chamberlain has the THIRD highest POST-SEASON scoring in "must-win" games, at 31.1 ppg...which trails Lebron (at 31.9 ppg), and MJ (at 31.3 ppg.) And he did so on a MUCH higher FG% than either Lebron or MJ did (and Wilt did so in an era of .430 shooting, too.)

Give me a list of "GOATS" who have averaged a 33-27 in one post-season SERIES...much less over the course of his first 52 playoff games (30 of which were against Russell.) How about a list of "GOATS" who put up a 30-27-5 .515 FG% SERIES (and in leagues that shot .420 in that same span), as well as likely 8 bpg...much less over the course of his first 67 post-season games.Go ahead... I'm waiting.

You aren't impressed with Wilt's statistical accomplishments, despite the fact that many of the came in the four years that he played with Kareem? How about this...Kareem's career high scoring game, in 20 years... 55 points. Just the year before Kareem joined the NBA, Chamberlain hung his last TWO 60+ games (both against centers that Kareem would face the very next year, and of course, he couldn't come close to those numbers.)

How about Wilt outrebounding EVERY center he faced in his 29 post-season series...including EIGHT against RUSSELL? How about Chamberlain leading the league in rebounding in 11 of his 14 seasons? How about Chamberlain winning FG% titles by margins of .157 and .162 over his nearest competitors, including one of in the Kareem-era?

How about Wilt's DEFENSE...when limited a PEAK Kareem to .464 shooting over the course of their 28 career H2H's...and keep in mind that Kareem was a career .559 shooter, and in fact, shot .607 against HAKEEM in their 23 career H2H's? How about Wilt holding Kareem to a combined .434 shooting in their last ten straight games?

And if Wilt was a "choker" how about KAJ, who in his prime 10 years in the league had considerably less "team success" than Chamberlain did..and against far weaker competition, too. How many times did MJ take a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss against the eventual champions? Same with Kareem? How about Shaq? Kobe?

Top 10 all-time basketball player? no way

You, my friend, are full of shit.

[SugarHill]

it was nice knowing you, swagga

you put up a valiant effort but it' time for more continuations than dragonball z

[Jud]

Making Shaq look like Steve Nash at the line

[LeJohn Janes]

Dude looked as if he wanted to die shooting ft's.

[Elosha]

How many times did MJ take a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss against the eventual champions? Same with Kareem? How about Shaq? Kobe?

Laz, you made some good points in this post. However, to be fair, you must concede that Wilt had to win fewer playoff rounds and significantly fewer playoff games to get to a championship round than did Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, or KAJ (at least when he played with Magic). So it's not an apples to apples comparison. Sure you can argue the league had more parity/concentration of talent with fewer teams in the 60's, (somewhat dubious imo), but the fact remains there were fewer hurdles to get to a championship round in terms of how many games you had to win.

[LAZERUSS]

Laz, you made some good points in this post. However, to be fair, you must concede that Wilt had to win fewer playoff rounds and significantly fewer playoff games to get to a championship round than did Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, or KAJ (at least when he played with Magic). So it's not an apples to apples comparison. Sure you can argue the league had more parity/concentration of talent with fewer teams in the 60's, (somewhat dubious imo), but the fact remains there were fewer hurdles to get to a championship round in terms of how many games you had to win.

Chamberlain's TEAM's "lost" to the eventual champion TEN times in his 13 seasons. Included were the Celtic Dynasty, SEVEN times; the '70 Knicks who went 60-22; the '71 Bucks, who went 66-16; and the '73 Knicks (with their SIX HOFers) who went 57-25 and who knocked off the 68-14 Celts. In FIVE of those series, Chamberlain's TEAM's lost in GAME SEVEN's, ...and FOUR of those were by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points.

And how about his two title teams? His '67 Sixers went 68-13 and annihilated the eight-time defending (and 60-21) Celtics, 4-1, (and were a mere four points away in game four from a sweep) en route to a convincing title. And his '72 Lakers went 69-13, and dispatched the defending champion (and 63-19) Bucks, 4-2 (and overall in the entire season, went 8-3 against them) en route to a dominating title.

John Wooden said it best...swap rosters with Russell and his coach, and Wilt holds all those rings.

[LAZERUSS]

He also once scored 44 pts with 0 FT's made and 45 in another with 4 FTA.

You won't find Kareem with a game seven in the Finals in which he scored four points on 2-7 shooting from the field in 29 minutes. Or a PEAK Kareem putting up playoff series of .428 and even .405 shooting from the field. Nor Larry Bird putting up back-to-back Finals games in which he scored 8 points in each, and shot .273 from the field in each. Kobe, you won't find Finals game-after Finals game in which he couldn't even shoot 40% from the field in. MJ...no way he would have put up three straight Finals of .455, .427, and even .415 shooting from the field.

Nope, only Chamberlain had bad games. And who cares about the 500 or so great ones, including MANY in the post-season?