Where do you guys typically rate Scottie Pippen as a player?

[Smoke117]

One of the best 2nd fiddle players ever but didn't have the iso game to carry a team offensively as "the man". He had his chances in 1993-1994 and 1994-1995 and after 1997-1998 without MJ. He was a K. Leonard type player. Someone who will probably be never good enough to lead a team as "the man" but would thrive as 2nd fiddle playing next to another superstar.

Of course, one of the best defenders ever and one of the most well rounded players ever.

Why do people bring this up like it means anything? By the time he left Chicago he was 33 with a back that would bother him the rest of his career and two knees that were starting to become bothersome. (and by 2001 be a continuous problem) He also led the league in total minutes played in the 90s...something people seem to forget when it comes to his career post Chicago. He had a lot of wear and tear on his body regardless of the back.

[ShawkFactory]

He was widely considered a top 5-10 player in the league anyway. Some even said he was the second best player, behind Jordan, a couple years.

I don't think he was ever the second best player in the league... but he was very clearly a top 10 player. If he had been the number one option on his team, and he played as well as he did in his lone full season without Jordan, then it's pretty easy to assume he'd be considered a top 5 player in the league, accounting for "leading scorer" biases.

Yea I was just being conservative. Top 5 or so is most likely where he'd be.

I'm thinking of 2012 or so, because right now it's a little bit of a transitional period (Kind of like the mid 90s btw). You had of LBJ, KD, Kobe, Dwight, CP3, Dirk, Wade etc. at the top. At that time who do you think he'd be considered better than?

[3ball]

Really? Pippen's 15/8 on 35% in 1996 Finals was the worst performance ever by a 2nd option?

who was the second option for the Cavs in the 2015 NBA Finals?

Mosgov averaged 14/8 on 55% with 2 blocks per game in 2015 Finals.

That is far superior to Pippen's 15/8 on 34%.

Kshutts, where you at on this ^^^^^^^^

Mosgov averaged 2 blocks per game and 14/8 on 55%.. That's much better than Pippen's 15/8 on 34%.

[TheMan]

If MJ is 1-9 in playoffs without Pippen, can MJ really be considered a franchise player?


Do we think Pippen would do much worse than 1-9? What we saw of him without MJ certainly doesnt suggest it.

This whole 1-9 crap is just a bunch garbage spewed by the dumbass Bran stan base, it holds no water.

In the 1988 playoffs, the year MJ was able to win his first playoffs series, these were his stats and Pippen's stats...

MJ 36 ppg on 53% FG with 5 asts and 7 rbs while Pippen contributed 10 ppg on 46% with 2 asts and 5 rbs...in fact, no other Bulls player scored more than 10 ppg.

I'm not saying Pippen wasn't important to the Bulls success, of course he was, but the Bulls started winning when MJ finally had decent players around him. This is something the idiots here like mehyaM24 would like you to ignore. They overrate Pip for obvious reasons...

[ClipperRevival]

Why do people bring this up like it means anything? By the time he left Chicago he was 33 with a back that would bother him the rest of his career and two knees that were starting to become bothersome. (and by 2001 be a continuous problem) He also led the league in total minutes played in the 90s...something people seem to forget when it comes to his career post Chicago. He had a lot of wear and tear on his body regardless of the back.

MJ was more productive at the age of 39 and 40 than Pip was from 34 on. Pip just didn't have the iso game to lead a team as "the man". It's plain as night and day.

Meanwhile, MJ was by far and away still the best player in the world at the age of 33, 34 and 35. This fact always gets overlooked and it is historically impressive, especially for a wing player.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I think he's top 25 pretty easily.

His blazer days at such an old age was impressive, dude was the best player on that 2000 team which almost made the finals

[kshutts1]

Kshutts, where you at on this ^^^^^^^^

Mosgov averaged 2 blocks per game and 14/8 on 55%.. That's much better than Pippen's 15/8 on 34%.

I was just waiting on your full list of 20-25 players better than Lebron.

[3ball]

somewhere around 24-25, interchangeably with Jordan

Nice.

In reality, if the Bulls had won Game 7 of 1990 ECF against the Pistons, they would've beaten the Blazers in the Finals - they proved they were the better team because they took the Pistons 7, while the Blazers only took them 6.

But Pippen famously choked in Game 7 of ECF, with 2 points on 1-10 shooting.. Indeed, Pippen cost the Bulls their first championship in 1990 - they should've 4-peated from 1990-1993.. He later admitted his Game 7 choke was due to the pressure.

This is nothing new for Pippen - he only averaged 15/8/3 on 34% in the 1996 Finals - that's the worst performance by a 2nd option EVER..

He also famously refused to enter the game in Game 3 of 1994 ECSF, where Kukoc had to play the MJ-role and save the day so the Bulls didn't go down 3-0.. Then of course, in the 1998 Finals, Pippen disappeared in the final 2 games, with 8 and 6 points.. This was the final time he let MJ carry the team across the finish line.

[ShawkFactory]

Kshutts, where you at on this ^^^^^^^^

Mosgov averaged 2 blocks per game and 14/8 on 55%.. That's much better than Pippen's 15/8 on 34%.

It was 16/8 with 5 assists, 2.3 steals and 1.3 blocks. His defense was the best on the team and he was the primary playmaker.

Stop lying to yourself.

[imdaman99]

Wasn't there an outcry over Pippen making the top 50 all time greats when it was first introduced? I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be on it, considering he had 6 rings but that was before the current crop of guys like Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, KG were either barely in the league or not yet drafted.

Is he clear cut in the top 50 now? I really don't know. He took himself out of a playoff game at the end 'to stick it to his coach'.

[PJR]

His blazer days at such an old age was impressive, dude was the best player on that 2000 team which almost made the finals

No he wasn't. Rasheed Wallace was the best player on the Blazers team. Easily.

[Rocketswin2013]

I don't rank past the top 15. I wouldn't put him above Wade, Nash, etc, but he was the best defensive player and point guard on 6 championship teams. Incredibly impressive if you look at it that way.

[3ball]

It was Pippen averaged 16/8/5, 2.3 steals and 1.3 blocks.

on 34%...

So his 16/8/5 is worse than Mosgov's 14/8/3 on 55%..

can you do the math on how much better 55% is than 34%?

Mosgov's 2015 Finals is EASILY better than Pippen's 1996.. It's not close

you're acting like you're content with 34%... that's the worst percentage I've ever seen anyone shoot - have you ever seen anyone shoot worse, and who was it?

[kshutts1]

Wasn't there an outcry over Pippen making the top 50 all time greats when it was first introduced? I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be on it, considering he had 6 rings but that was before the current crop of guys like Kobe, Duncan, Lebron, KG were either barely in the league or not yet drafted.

Is he clear cut in the top 50 now? I really don't know. He took himself out of a playoff game at the end 'to stick it to his coach'.

Top 50 now? Uhh... I'll keep this to 5 names per line to make it easier to keep count. Only do the people that Pippen has zero case over.

Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan
Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe
Oscar, West, Moses, Karl, KG
Barkley, Dirk, Mikan, Pettit, Baylor
Doc, Lebron, Wade...

I can't think of any other players that Pippen has NO case over. There are more that I personally rank ahead of Pippen, but there is more of a potential argument to be had.

And, as always, I may have forgotten some people.

[3ball]

Top 50 now? Uhh... I'll keep this to 5 names per line to make it easier to keep count. Only do the people that Pippen has zero case over.

Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan
Russell, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Kobe
Oscar, West, Moses, Karl, KG
Barkley, Dirk, Mikan, Pettit, Baylor
Doc, Lebron, Wade...

I can't think of any other players that Pippen has NO case over. There are more that I personally rank ahead of Pippen, but there is more of a potential argument to be had.

And, as always, I may have forgotten some people.

Has any big name player had so many obviously horrible series?

1996 Finals - 34% FG... which is literally WOAT... and only 15 ppg

1998 Finals - 8 and 6 points in final 2 games.. 15 ppg on 41% overall

1990 ECF - 2 points on 1-10 shooting in Game 7, costing Bulls championship

1994 ECSF - sits out final possession while Kukoc plays MJ-role & hits GW to save Bulls from going down 3-0