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  1. #316
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Yi cannot afford to go back to China and forget about his NBA dreams forever just to make a point. That's what would be costly. Yi will realize this over the coming weeks and will either sign in Milwaukee or be saved by an equal value trade. He can't just go back to China - the Chinese government doesn't want him there, Fegan doesn't want him there, and the Tigers might not even want him there.
    do you have proof of this or is it just a feeling you have? and if so why do you have this feeling?

    edit: nevermind we posted at the same time and you pretty much answered it there...
    Last edited by gts; 07-05-2007 at 07:58 PM.

  2. #317
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    GTS, just stop and think about it for a minute. Everybody involved in this (including Yi), is motivated either by money or by Yi's development. Ask yourself how Yi can make the most money for himself and for those who are pressuring him. How can he develop as a player best. By playing for the Bucks, or by returning to China?

  3. #318
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by adamcz
    GTS, just stop and think about it for a minute. Everybody involved in this (including Yi), is motivated either by money or by Yi's development. Ask yourself how Yi can make the most money for himself and for those who are pressuring him. How can he develop as a player best. By playing for the Bucks, or by returning to China?
    see that's where you and i differ, to me i think it's more about national pride than money with yi and the chinese goverment and they are going to work hard at making sure he is in the best possible situation to succeed... remeber that china is not like here where money is the great example of your worth, to the chinese being a national hero is more important than the money that may come along with it... and as such china would rather see him on a team that's televised alot and has a chance at going deep into the playoffs... that's just my feeling on the subject, i don't see it as a matter of money...

  4. #319
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by gts
    see that's where you and i differ, to me i think it's more about national pride than money with yi and the chinese goverment and they are going to work hard at making sure he is in the best possible situation to succeed... remeber that china is not like here where money is the great example of your worth, to the chinese being a national hero is more important than the money that may come along with it... and as such china would rather see him on a team that's televised alot and has a chance at going deep into the playoffs... that's just my feeling on the subject, i don't see it as a matter of money...
    Yea I am sure the NBA and Milwaukee would be more than happy to have China buy tv rights and air all the Bucks games back in China ...

    And for that matter , Bucks should look into discussing with Yi & the NBA for paying Yi less than a rookie contract , because after all YI only wants the NATIONAL pride back home ...
    What would he need money for ....

    ------------

    On a lighter note - the commish will intervene and make it all good..

  5. #320
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    I wonder what the most popular NBA team is in china?

  6. #321
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by adamcz
    They aren't throwing anything away. Yi cannot afford to go back to China and forget about his NBA dreams forever just to make a point. That's what would be costly. Yi will realize this over the coming weeks and will either sign in Milwaukee or be saved by an equal value trade. He can't just go back to China - the Chinese government doesn't want him there, Fegan doesn't want him there, and the Tigers might not even want him there.
    I'd love to know where you got all this information you supposedly "know". And you're out of your mind if you think this is Yi's one shot at the NBA. Even if it takes him 2 years out of the league, eventually, the Bucks will trade his rights to someone else if he continued to hold out. And the longer he holds out, the more his stock drops, and the less the Bucks get for him.

    Only within reasonable limits. You don't trade away good players just because they ask for it. I assume you think the Lakers are stupid for still having Kobe on their roster, and should accept whatever offers happen to come along for him?
    The Lakers are more f*cked than the Bucks. The whole league knows Kobe isn't happy. LA isn't in the position to get anyone in there that's going to make them an instant contender, and if they DON'T trade Kobe, they're going to have a nightmare on their hands for the next 2 years, when he will eventually leave anyways.

    You're right. The league could crack down hard on Yi and Fegan at any moment for thinking that they are above the integrity of the CBA and the draft process. A lifetime ban for Fegan wouldn't be out of the question. Stern doesn't **** around with people who think that they are the ones calling the shots. You're even dumber than I thought if you think that the league will side with anyone other than the Bucks here.
    I don't think Stern gives a damn about the Bucks, or where Yi plays, but make no mistake, Stern wants him to play. Stern's been all about global expansion for the past decade. Anything he can do to promote the NBA worldwide, he will do, period.

    If Yi is half as popular as Yao Ming, then people in China will know who he is and want to see him play. And that means $$$ to Mr. Stern.

    Mathius

  7. #322
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mathius
    It's absolutely disgusting how you guys make all kinds of personal assumptions about this kid based on one little rumor that he's going to hold out and wants a trade.

    You guys don't know the first damn thing about him.

    If I made those kinds of assumptions about you posters based on what you've said in this thread, then I'd have to say you guys are disgusting trash as human beings go.

    Mathius
    I can't believe this is -still- going. Mathius you've got some serious moron-tolerating skills if you're still around in here being the voice of cold hard reality.

    For the rest of you, here's a few facts (bolded) followed by supporting opinions. Now, you might disagree with my opinions, but feel free to waste your time trying to disagree with the facts. The facts always speak for themselves:

    1. The draft has zero integrity. Granted, it's mainly because of agents and corporate interests. The entire draft process, down to the lottery that selects the order of the picks, is horribly designed. Teams give players bull**** promises that they'll pick them, and then not pick them. Players use whatever leverage they can attain to affect the outcome of the draft. This happens in -every- sport, since as long as there's been a draft process. This is all part of it. If you don't like it, that's just too ****ing bad. Saying something compromises the integrity of the draft is ridiculous. The more money that is in question, the less integrity is involved. This is nothing new, this is the simply the way things work in our world. The rest of the class is waiting for you to catch up.

    2. A GM that picks a player that does not want to be on that GM's team has made an unquestionable and unforgivable error. The ONLY exception is when said GM has only picked that player to trade him. Sometimes, a GM will pick a player that they know another team wants, and offer to swap picks plus a little incentive (see Allen, Ray and Marbury, Stephon for one shining example). If there's a larger gap between the two teams' picks, it can be a little more understandable since the player the team with the lower pick wants might not be available. But if I'm picking 5th, and you're picking 6th, and I pick your guy and you pick mine, and I trade him to you and make you give me some cash or a 2nd rounder, I'm -****ing- you. How's that for integrity? But if you pick Joe Schmoe from Utah, knowing that there might be some reason why he might not play a game for you (trade demand, refusal to show up, criminal matter, sexual matter, drug matter, overdose, death, spontaneous combustion), you're an idiot. If you aren't aware of any reasons then it's totally understandable, but if you are aware of any reason that he might not play for you then you are taking a risk. Generally, if you're taking a high risk you want a high reward. Personally, I'm not so sure Yi can be considered a high reward. I'm not a GM, and I never would claim to be, but if I'm looking at players to draft, and there's this tall guy who can shoot (red flag #1 - tall guys who can shoot the lights out always end up sucking, what's with that?), that refuses to work out against other players (red flag #2 - don't you want to raise your draft profile by looking better than other good prospects?), that releases heavily edited video footage of a workout (red flag #3 - every single video you see is edited and edited for a reason), that won't even consider TALKING with your team (red flag #4 - Uh, gee... even Marbury can figure this one out), and above all of that, he's an unproven commodity from another country (red flag #5 - foreign players are still people, and sometimes people don't adapt to new surroundings as well as other people). So, completely ignoring the whole Asian market thing, there's enough red flags there that make me choose otherwise. If it was Oden or Durant? Yeah, I'd take the risk for the higher reward, but for Yi? Come on. Use your head.

    3. Milwaukee made a big mistake. They wasted the sixth pick in a loaded draft on a player that may not ever play a game for them. No matter -how- it comes to pass that he doesn't play a game for them, the end result is the absolute same: Milwaukee blew a high pick in a loaded draft.

    4. Milwaukee is not an upper tier city in any way. You can say all you want about it's not bad, it's better than China, you're lucky to play in the NBA let alone get paid millions to do it, etc., but you can't deny the truth of the matter is that Milwaukee is not a great city. It doesn't have one of the nicer stadiums. It doesn't have nice weather. It doesn't offer any real reason to go there. Milwaukee is just there because, well, something has to be there. If Milwaukee blew up tomorrow, other than people you care about who happen to live in that city, would you even care? Would you even notice? It certainly wouldn't make the news before some celebutard bull**** did. I grew up four hours from Wisconsin, and about five hours from Milwaukee and I can't think of a reason I would want to go there, and I've even got good friends there! Hell, I was offered a job about an hour north of where I am now (I'm about an hour south of the Wisconsin border here) and I was looking at real estate and rental costs around where I'd be working and I found Wisconsin to be MUCH lower in costs. An average of $200 a month less in rent, and about $35,000-50,000 less in small (less than 3BR) houses. I absolutely refused to even consider it. I will NOT live in Wisconsin, I don't care how much money I'll save, I just won't do it.

    And you can't make me.

    (Sorry Wisconsinites, but your state sucks. I'm sure I'm not the first to tell ya, but yeah, it's true. It's not all bad though, there's a little good in there for everyone. Your cool people are extra laid back and cool, and you've got the OshKosh airshow, although you've only got that because of cheap land. But hey, that's probably why -you're- a Wisconsinite! Cheap land. I personally think you should give the whole state back to the Indians, er I mean "Native Americans". They'd sure appreciate it, and you really haven't done that much with it since they last had it. It's win/win for everyone. There's plenty of room in Minnesota for the northerners, and PLENTY of space in Iowa for the rest of you. Oh, and I'm sure it'll be alright if you kept Green Bay. We all know how much it means to you.)

    5. Things like this happen all the time. I just can't fathom why people are getting so hostile towards Yi. "I hate him, I'm going to boo him every time I see him play." I mean, how ridiculous is this? First off, a player dictating where he goes in the draft happens all the time. Sometimes you hear about it, sometimes you don't. Regardless, it happens all the time. Acting like this is an egregious violation against the entire game of basketball is pretty ridiculous when one of the most popular players in the game did the -exact- same thing.

    6. Yi's reasons are valid. I'm referring to Yi as in the entire camp of people that are involved on Yi's side, just because who really knows who is calling the shots. If they're Dan Fegan's reasons, or China's reasons, or the Chinese team's reasons, or if they truly are Yi's reasons, it doesn't matter. The reasons they gave were valid. Now, you may not agree with those reasons. You may not believe that those reasons are ethical. You may not believe that those reasons are enough justification for their stance or their actions (or inactions, as the case may be). You may not even believe those reasons as the true reason behind their actions. But regardless of all of that, you still cannot deny that his reasons are valid ones.

    7. The player is ALWAYS in the driver's seat. A player can always simply not play. Whether it's not playing for your team by playing overseas, by holding out in a contract dispute, by feigning injury, or by not choosing to not play up to their full capabilities, the player has complete control over the situation, especially a charismatic or talented player. There are dozens of examples littered on every single team in the league, but the best one is Latrell Sprewell. Now, I'm going to bold this because it's important, not because I'm trying to be a dick, but Sprewell choked his ****ing coach, had his contract voided and was expelled from the league, and he got that overturned! He was traded to the Knicks, and went to the Finals! He choked his coach! He threatened to kill him!

    See, working in a law office, I see these things with a bit of a slant. I see players as employees and the league as a big corporation. The corporation pulls all the strings, sets all the rules, makes all of the money, and does lots of seemingly stupid things. Meanwhile the employees all get by in their own ways; some find ways to use the system to their advantage, some get high paying positions, some have to work hard to stick around, some try and buck the system, some have some involvement in executive affairs, etc. As an employee, if you keep your nose clean, the corporation really can't **** with you too much because it's just not worth the cost of the effort. You've got to screw up for them to want to spend the time and/or money to **** you. Of course, they can always just watch you like a hawk and wait for you to inevitably screw up. Or they can just set you up to fail, leaving you to choose which way they'll **** you. But as an employee, even when they finally do fire you, as long as you have a guaranteed contract, you're getting paid to do nothing and you can always get paid some more by going elsewhere and doing whatever you want. As an employee, as long as you don't screw up, you're in the driver's seat.

    8. Sometimes you lose when you take risks. That's why they're risks. There's a reward, but there's also a chance of walking away empty handed. Milwaukee took a risk. They had the sixth pick in a loaded draft. They had a promising but young team that had a lot of injuries last year. They're not likely to make the Finals but playoffs are definitely an option, especially in the East. If luck lands their way, they too could face a first round opponent with it's star player (or more) out for the season. You never know how far they can go. All they need is a little consistency, a little health and a little luck and they could have a pretty good season. They should want to try and build on that. There's a good chance that the player you pick won't play for your team, or play for it long. Injuries, illnesses, death, -anything- can happen so everything is always going to be a risk anyway. It's better to err on the side of caution, but the reward is greater if you don't. As I said earlier, I don't believe that Yi Jianlian is worth the risk. I don't think he was worth the sixth pick, and I really don't think he'll be that much better than Wang Zhi Zhi over the length of his entire career. Even if Yi ends up playing in Milwaukee, in my opinion this is a bad pick.

    But hey, I thought Nowitski was going to be an awful pick, and that Traylor was going to end up better off. Anything can happen :)

  8. #323
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by gts
    and as such china would rather see him on a team that's televised alot and has a chance at going deep into the playoffs
    The year before Yao Ming arrived, Houston won 28 games. Last year the Bucks won 28 games. Stern told China that Yao would either play in Houston or nowhere, and they agreed. Yao joined Steve Francis, and Cat Mobley down there in Houston.

    Go ahead and explain to me why China likes Steve Francis and Cat Mobley as teammates better than Michael Redd, Mo Williams, and Andrew Bogut.

  9. #324
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Agreed. Very nice post.
    Bucks are a dumbass team for wasting a #6 pick just to prove a damn point.
    Now they're sucking it up and begging yi to talk to them

  10. #325
    GIVEN NOT EARNED ripthekik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by adamcz
    The year before Yao Ming arrived, Houston won 28 games. Last year the Bucks won 28 games. Stern told China that Yao would either play in Houston or nowhere, and they agreed. Yao joined Steve Francis, and Cat Mobley down there in Houston.

    Go ahead and explain to me why China likes Steve Francis and Cat Mobley as teammates better than Michael Redd, Mo Williams, and Andrew Bogut.
    Wrong. Stern didnt tell china that houston was the only choice. Houston was the only team that contact CBA, China, Yao's team.. they worked over the thing for several months. In fact china specified yao would only go if it was houston. It was signed somewhere that Houston had to draft yao at 1.. thats how it would go.

    Plus, China can be happy with houston because it is a big and respectable city with asian population I might add.
    Milwaukee in no way can compare to houston.

    And this isn't about teammates.. they dont care who his teammates are.

  11. #326
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Well right now I'm starting a campaign to forgive all illegal chinese immigrant provided they move to Milwaukee, that should get Yi to accept his fate.

  12. #327
    Decent college freshman InfiniteBaskets's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by HollaBolla
    Well right now I'm starting a campaign to forgive all illegal chinese immigrant provided they move to Milwaukee, that should get Yi to accept his fate.
    Illegal Chinese immigrants? Do they still exist?

  13. #328
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    why is this thread so freaking looong?

  14. #329
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by JalenRawley
    It doesn't offer any real reason to go there. Milwaukee is just there because, well, something has to be there. If Milwaukee blew up tomorrow, other than people you care about who happen to live in that city, would you even care? Would you even notice? It certainly wouldn't make the news before some celebutard bull**** did. I grew up four hours from Wisconsin, and about five hours from Milwaukee and I can't think of a reason I would want to go there, and I've even got good friends there! Hell, I was offered a job about an hour north of where I am now (I'm about an hour south of the Wisconsin border here) and I was looking at real estate and rental costs around where I'd be working and I found Wisconsin to be MUCH lower in costs. An average of $200 a month less in rent, and about $35,000-50,000 less in small (less than 3BR) houses. I absolutely refused to even consider it. I will NOT live in Wisconsin, I don't care how much money I'll save, I just won't do it.
    Uhm, dont facts have to be grounded in reality? Take your petty provincial point of view back to the land of corn, you cracker ass. Wisconsin has better schools (both k-12 and the flagship university) and is a beautiful state (esp. compared to IL). What the **** does the cost of living, etc. have to do with Yi and all this? Grow up

  15. #330
    An uglier Lamar Doom boozehound's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yi to demand a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    Wrong. Stern didnt tell china that houston was the only choice. Houston was the only team that contact CBA, China, Yao's team.. they worked over the thing for several months. In fact china specified yao would only go if it was houston. It was signed somewhere that Houston had to draft yao at 1.. thats how it would go.

    Plus, China can be happy with houston because it is a big and respectable city with asian population I might add.
    Milwaukee in no way can compare to houston.

    And this isn't about teammates.. they dont care who his teammates are.
    having lived in both there are some definite perks to milwaukee over houston (fromt he poiont of view of personal quality of life). Clearly houston is bigger, with a strong investment economy, but there are lots of things that suck about houston as well. Why did this become a bash milwaukee thread? How many of you have even been there?

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