Lies KB42PAH Told Us: The Myth of the 'Zone'

[bruceblitz]

http://my.nba.com/thread.jspa?threadID=5800021415

It seems these days the only place you can corner an NBA point guard is in a locker room. (Thanks for the time, Skip.) If you've read this blog or the Race to the MVP column since I've been writing it for the past year, you know I think this is the golden age of the point guard.

From classic pass-first guys such as Jason Kidd to you-can't-hand-check-me speedsters such as Chris Paul and Devin Harris (who is having quite the week), point guard play in the Association has never been better. And this week, I'd like to thank a couple of guys who have validated my thoughts: San Antonio's Tony Parker and Utah's Deron Williams.

NBA.com's man in the Texas triangle, Art Garcia, has written splendidly about how the Spurs have returned home after an eight-game road trip and weathered Tim Duncan's and Manu Ginobili absence thanks to Parker's brilliance.

"I prepared myself today," said Parker, referring to Duncan's late scratch the previous night.

"Speed is an important thing and he has speed," Blazers coach Nate McMillan said of Parker. "We tried every defense ... but he was like a roadrunner just blowing by us."

As we've noted before, when the NBA started re-enforcing the hand-checking rule more stringently before the 2004-05, it may have been the most significant rules decision since the three-point line was added before the 1979-80 season. Instead of opposing guards being able to sink a meat-hook into a guy's side and direct him all over the court, the keep-your-hands-to-yourself edict has allowed basketball to be played closer to the way the good Dr. James Naismith intended when he wrote up the original 13 rules in 1891.

One of the interesting things about the rule is it also allows guards to go where most guards haven't been able to go before -- close to the hoop.

Check out the photo above. Parker is excellent at breaking down a defense. Just ask the Cleveland Cavaliers, whom Parker torched en route to a Finals MVP.

While his speed can get him close to the rack, his decent outside shot can keep the defense honest. If he finds his line of sight impeded near the rim, Roger Mason or Michael Finley are patiently waiting for the kick-out pass in the short corner.

As you can see in a play like that, the marriage of the two significant rule changes (hand-checking, three-point line) work to make the game more fluid and well-spaced in the half-court.

And it's not only speedy dudes like Parker or Paul or two-time MVP Steve Nash who benefit from this rule re-enforcement. Strong point guards such as Williams, who also benefits from playing in a high-side pick-and-roll offense, who can work their way past smaller guards without being poked in the side along the way.

Williams, some of you may remember, was No. 10 in our first Race to the MVP this season, even though he hadn't played a game because of injury. Since the calendar flipped to 2009, Williams has averaged a double-double with 22.1 points and 10.8 assists per game. Yes, folks, those are MVP-type digits.

Also, if you think those rules only benefit point guards, take a check at some of the guys who play on the wing. LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and Brandon Roy handle the ball a lot for their teams. Their size and strength would negate any attempt to hand-check them on the perimeter, they too benefit from these rules.

[bruceblitz]

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[DonDadda59]

That's actually the truest thing here.

But the fact is allowing zone, was indeed removing illegal defenses.
When defending superstars, double teaming is a much more effective defensive move, than hand-checking.

Lots of guys bring up how scoring went up when zone was introduced. But it was the role players that made that difference, not the superstars.

In 01', 8 players averaged over 25, them being:

1. Allen Iverson FG% .420 ppg 31.1
2. Jerry Stackhouse FG% .402 ppg 29.8
3. Shaquille O'Neal FG% .572 ppg 28.7
4. Kobe Bryant FG% .464 ppg 28.5
5. Vince Carter FG% .460 ppg 27.6
6. Chris Webber FG% .481 ppg 27.1
7. Tracy McGrady FG% .457 ppg 26.8
8. Paul Pierce FG% .454 ppg 25.3

But the following season, with the rule changes, only 2 of them (AI, Pierce) increased their ppg, both of whom having lower FG%.

Here are the stats from the following season:

1. Allen Iverson FG% .398 ppg 31.4
2. Jerry Stackhouse FG% .397 ppg 21.4
3. Shaquille O'Neal FG% .579 ppg 27.2
4. Kobe Bryant FG% .469 ppg 25.2
5. Vince Carter FG% .428 ppg 24.7
6. Chris Webber FG% .495 ppg 24.5
7. Tracy McGrady FG% .451 ppg 25.6
8. Paul Pierce FG% .442 ppg 26.1

To sum it up the reflection was:

Iverson -2.2%FG, +0.3ppg
Stackhouse -0.5%FG, -8.4ppg
Shaq +0.7%FG, -1.5ppg
Kobe +0.5%FG, -3.3ppg
Vince -3.2%FG, -2.9ppg
Webber +1.8%FG, -1.5ppg
TMac -0.6%FG, -1.2ppg
Pierce -1.2%FG, +0.8ppg

And even these numbers are a little flawed, because most of these guys had better FT shooting seasons, and more 3 pointers the following year(02).

Granted great players can adjust their games to any rule changes, but thinking that hand-checking is more effective than "zone" is idiotic.
Everyone claims that now people can go to the hole much easier, while it's obvious (and inarguable), that todays players are forced to take more jumpers.




BTW, just so that people know, while I go against the OP, I certainly agree that KB42PAH, has lots of BS in his videos.

Oh, and I didn't read the whole OP, but "Celtics are committed to their basic man-to-man principles?" "Shrinking the floor by overloading defenders to one side and trying to contest every shot" is something that became legal after the rule changes.
And the Celtics so many times run actual pure zone defense, and maybe are the only team in league history to use it effectively.

You probably should've, woulda saved you a lot of research and typing

[bruceblitz]

You probably should've, woulda saved you a lot of research and typing

[bruceblitz]

You probably should've, woulda saved you a lot of research and typing

Apparently he missed the fact that they didn't enforce the rules changes stringently until 2004-2005.

[bruceblitz]

League leaders in points:

2008-09 NBA Dwyane Wade 2386
2007-08 NBA Kobe Bryant 2323
2006-07 NBA Kobe Bryant 2430
2005-06 NBA Kobe Bryant 2832
2004-05 NBA Allen Iverson 2302 (rules changes go into full effect)
2003-04 NBA Kevin Garnett 1987



Now let's look at PPG leaders who average 24 points per game or more:
2003-2004 ppg:
Points Per Game Leaders

1. Tracy McGrady-ORL 28.0
2. Peja Stojakovic-SAC 24.2
3. Kevin Garnett-MIN 24.2
4. Kobe Bryant-LAL 24.0




2004-2005 ppg (rules changes in full effect)

Points Per Game Leaders

1. Allen Iverson-PHI 30.7
2. Kobe Bryant-LAL 27.6
3. LeBron James-CLE 27.2
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.1
5. Amare Stoudemire-PHO 26.0
6. Tracy McGrady-HOU 25.7
7. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 25.5
8. Vince Carter-TOT 24.5
9. Dwyane Wade-MIA 24.1

2005-2006 ppg

Points Per Game Leaders

1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 35.4
2. Allen Iverson-PHI 33.0
3. LeBron James-CLE 31.4
4. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 29.3
5. Dwyane Wade-MIA 27.2
6. Paul Pierce-BOS 26.8
7. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 26.6
8. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 26.5
9. Michael Redd-MIL 25.4
10. Ray Allen-SEA 25.1
11. Elton Brand-LAC 24.7
12. Vince Carter-NJN 24.2


2006-2007 ppg

Points Per Game Leaders

1. Kobe Bryant-LAL 31.6
2. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 28.9
3. Gilbert Arenas-WAS 28.4
4. LeBron James-CLE 27.3
5. Michael Redd-MIL 26.7
6. Ray Allen-SEA 26.4
7. Allen Iverson-TOT 26.3
8. Vince Carter-NJN 25.2
9. Joe Johnson-ATL 25.0
10. Tracy McGrady-HOU 24.6
11. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 24.6


2007-2008 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. LeBron James-CLE 30.0
2. Kobe Bryant-LAL 28.3
3. Allen Iverson-DEN 26.4
4. Carmelo Anthony-DEN 25.7
5. Amare Stoudemire-PHO 25.2



2008-2009 ppg

Points Per Game

1. Dwyane Wade-MIA 30.2
2. LeBron James-CLE 28.4
3. Kobe Bryant-LAL 26.8
4. Dirk Nowitzki-DAL 25.9
5. Danny Granger-IND 25.8
6. Kevin Durant-OKC 25.3









Now let's compare that to the last couple of years Jordan was a Bull:

1997-1998 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 28.7
2. Shaquille O'Neal-LAL 28.3
3. Karl Malone-UTA 27.0
(these were the only 3 players over 24ppg)

1996-1997 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 29.6
2. Karl Malone-UTA 27.4
3. Glen Rice-CHH 26.8
4. Mitch Richmond-SAC 25.9
5. Latrell Sprewell-GSW 24.2


1995-1996 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 30.4
2. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 26.9
3. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 26.6
4. Karl Malone-UTA 25.7
5. David Robinson*-SAS 25.0

(notice, only one perimeter player)


1994-1995 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 29.3
2. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 27.8
3. David Robinson*-SAS 27.6
4. Karl Malone-UTA 26.7
5. Jamal Mashburn-DAL 24.1
(Notice the lack of perimeter players)


1993-1994 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. David Robinson*-SAS 29.8
2. Shaquille O'Neal-ORL 29.3
3. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 27.3
4. Dominique Wilkins*-TOT 26.0
5. Karl Malone-UTA 25.2
6. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 24.5

(where are the perimeter players?)


1992-1993 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 32.6
2. Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 29.9
3. Karl Malone-UTA 27.0
4. Hakeem Olajuwon*-HOU 26.1
5. Charles Barkley*-PHO 25.6
6. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 24.2


1991-1992 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 30.1
2. Karl Malone-UTA 28.0
3. Chris Mullin-GSW 25.6
4. Clyde Drexler*-POR 25.0
5. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 24.0



1990-1991 ppg

Points Per Game leaders

1. Michael Jordan*-CHI 31.5
2. Karl Malone-UTA 29.0
3. Bernard King-WSB 28.4
4. Charles Barkley*-PHI 27.6
5. Patrick Ewing*-NYK 26.6
6. Michael Adams-DEN 26.5
7. Dominique Wilkins*-ATL 25.9
8. Chris Mullin-GSW 25.7
9. David Robinson*-SAS 25.6

(notice the lack of perimeter players, imagine Clyde Drexler, Joe Dumars, Tim Hardaway, prime Penny Hardaway, Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller and players like Isiah Thomas playing under today's rules, they would all register 30+ppg seasons more than once.)

During Jordan's era it was MUCH MUCH more difficult for perimeter players to score as much as today's perimeter players....

90's defense was the best defense at containing perimeter basketball players. 90's defenses took the best aspects of 80's defenses and added to them. 00's defenses were stripped of their rights to actually physically contain the ball handler. Why do you think the 04 Pistons defense fell off so quick?

[Flamboyant]

You probably should've, woulda saved you a lot of research and typing

Yeah, read the whole thing in the mean time, and nope, still would've typed the same. People here believe, that rule changes of 01, got completely ignored by every single team, while no hand checking, made a +10ppg jump to every player. At the end the help defense is more effective than handchecking IMO, and even if you believe the other way around, the difference is minimal.

And unlike your article claims, most of the best teams of this decade (Spurs, Celtics, and even the Lakers of the last years) have apllied the new rules to upgrade their defenses, especially on the big games. It was also the way Cavs, and Heat battled against Detroit who was far superior to them, in 06 & 07.

[bruceblitz]

Yeah, read the whole thing in the mean time, and nope, still would've typed the same. People here believe, that rule changes of 01, got completely ignored by every single team, while no hand checking, made a +10ppg jump to every player. At the end the help defense is more effective than handchecking IMO, and even if you believe the other way around, the difference is minimal.

And unlike your article claims, most of the best teams of this decade (Spurs, Celtics, and even the Lakers of the last years) have apllied the new rules to upgrade their defenses, especially on the big games. It was also the way Cavs, and Heat battled against Detroit who was far superior to them, in 06 & 07.

Quit posting your bias opinions. Don Dadda and myself have more proof than you could ever dream of. Thanks for taking time to post though.

[bruceblitz]

The NBA went from being a big-man's game, to being a game that caters to the perimeter players.

[Flamboyant]

During Jordan's era it was MUCH MUCH more difficult for perimeter players to score as much as today's perimeter players....

See, this is exactly what I'm arguing against. IF anything, it was easier for big men to score in the Jordan era. Today the league maybe is mostly in the hands of the premiter players, but that doesn't mean they are having it easier. Lots of players averaged 30/g in hand checking era: Nique, MJ, AI, Kobe, T-Mac.

It clearly wasn't that difficult back then neither. It's just that instead of just Nique, and MJ, now we have a little more talented scorers in the wing.

[DonDadda59]

Yeah, read the whole thing in the mean time, and nope, still would've typed the same. People here believe, that rule changes of 01, got completely ignored by every single team, while no hand checking, made a +10ppg jump to every player. At the end the help defense is more effective than handchecking IMO, and even if you believe the other way around, the difference is minimal.

And unlike your article claims, most of the best teams of this decade (Spurs, Celtics, and even the Lakers of the last years) have apllied the new rules to upgrade their defenses, especially on the big games. It was also the way Cavs, and Heat battled against Detroit who was far superior to them, in 06 & 07.

I didn't write the articles. But you disagree with Popovich, Jackson, Thibodeau/Rivers, Adelman, Brown, Karl, etc and so on about the preponderance of 'zone' in their team defensive schemes and the league as a whole? You're talking out of your a$$.

[Flamboyant]

Quit posting your bias opinions. Don Dadda and myself have more proof than you could ever dream of. Thanks for taking time to post though.

Refer to what you are talking about, cause I only posted numbers, and facts so far. (besides hand checking not being more effective than zone, which you don't have any facts to prove wrong, accept posting your superbiased opinion)

[bruceblitz]

See, this is exactly what I'm arguing against. IF anything, it was easier for big men to score in the Jordan era. Today the league maybe is mostly in the hands of the premiter players, but that doesn't mean they are having it easier. Lots of players averaged 30/g in hand checking era: Nique, MJ, AI, Kobe, T-Mac.

It clearly wasn't that difficult back then neither. It's just that instead of just Nique, and MJ, now we have a little more talented scorers in the wing.

Why are you wasting my time?


-Jordan didn't face great defense in the Finals:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy4W5siGgcc
(more coming)

-Jordan didn't face zone defenses, (Pat Riley makes fun of the Hawks for trying to use a 1-2-2 trapping zone defense in the early 90's, the Hawks weren't the only team. 1-2-2 aka box and 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOt5lavQIpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukEhjT16hMI
At the 5:45 mark listen to what Jordan says about getting EASY LOOKS against the zone defense

-Average teams in the MJ era didn't play great d:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f-BzacrbJ8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLo29V0DS9k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyXhG7yBQ98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp53zWynjh4
(more coming)

-Jordan faced weak defenses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xJJNUkrdyQ

-Jordan faced single coverage his entire career:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5auPSMaD3vE

Now, watch the videos, stop typing. It wasn't easier to score for bigs in Jordan's era, they got more touches because you didn't have as many ball-hog perimeter players who think they deserve 18-20 shots per game, despite the fact that nearly all of them miss over 50% of their shots.

[bruceblitz]

Refer to what you are talking about, cause I only posted numbers, and facts so far. (besides hand checking not being more effective than zone, which you don't have any facts to prove wrong, accept posting your superbiased opinion)

You keep typing about zones, as if teams didn't run zones, aka 1-2-2 box and 1 in the Jordan era. You don't know what the hell you are talking about, it just isn't handchecking, it's the amount of touch calls, the circle area in the paint to get credit for a charge, and the loss of the ability for bigs to camp out in the paint due to a 3 second defensive rule now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du-C-...e=channel_page



I love it when kids say that they didn't run match-up zones in Jordan's era but when you watch full game film, or remember watching games from that era, teams ran match-up zones all the time. What a joke.

[chitownsfinest]

Avg PPG the year before zone was legalized (even though teams were running it before illegally): 94.8 ppg
AVG PPG the year zone was legalized: 95.5
Wow, zone had such a big fu*king effect