Isiah Thomas letting Shaq know what it is! OPEN COURT

[L.Kizzle]

Shaq talking about Kareem "I'd be blocking his sky hook." Billups gives him the side eye.

Zeke to Shaq "You know I love you but Kareem at 22-25 would have been killing you."

I know Shaq was mad, big sinsitive ass boy.

[navy]

lol, Kareem would be killing Shaq even at like 35.

I mean kareem couldnt guard shaq, but that wasnt the point.

[Milbuck]

lol, Kareem would be killing Shaq even at like 35.

I mean kareem couldnt guard shaq, but that wasnt the point.

No he would not. 2000 Shaq was also the peak of his defensive energy and motivation. He was 2nd in DPOY voting and was a clear game changer on that end, anchoring the #1 defense in both DRTG and opposing FG%. Peak Shaq would have a better shot of containing peak Kareem than the other way around.

[ArbitraryWater]

Shaq would drop a lot of Points on a lot of good Efficiency on ANYONE, even Kareem...

But consider defense, Shaq wouldn't have the slighest of a chance to contain Kareem's skyhook and post moves... Kareem's edge in endurance, Stamina, intangibles and defense give him the edge. Kareem would make it rain on him offensively and at his defensive Peak have a better shot of containing Shaq than Shaq would have of containing him.

At the least its a draw between the 2, if they were to match up.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq action a fool there, I'm with Isiah on this one...

No he would not. 2000 Shaq was also the peak of his defensive energy and motivation. He was 2nd in DPOY voting and was a clear game changer on that end, anchoring the #1 defense in both DRTG and opposing FG%. Peak Shaq would have a better shot of containing peak Kareem than the other way around.

And Kareem would've gotten a couple of DPOY's at least, had the award been given before 1983, so I don't really get the argument you're trying to make...

With that said, I think I'd pick Shaq when it comes to m2m defense because Kareem sometimes got "killed" by very big, skilled and physical centers (Shaq being one, so regarding the 1on1 he probably would've stood better chances), but Jabbar has him beat in terms of overall team D, at center.

One thing they got in common, defensively, is that they didn't like to come out and challenge on the perimeter a lot, which could be detrimental sometimes...

Love Shaq and if I had to pick the greatest peak ever I'd probably go with him... but him vs peak Kareem? Can go either way really, and I'm not talking just about the 1on1 but overall impact towards their team winning... And tbh, Kareem probably gets the slight edge when you measure every part of the game, including intangibles(which could very well be the game changer here), but it's hard to tell...

Oh, and both at their best? Neither has a chance at (decisively) stopping the other.

[navy]

No he would not. 2000 Shaq was also the peak of his defensive energy and motivation. He was 2nd in DPOY voting and was a clear game changer on that end, anchoring the #1 defense in both DRTG and opposing FG%. Peak Shaq would have a better shot of containing peak Kareem than the other way around.

Shaq isnt enough to stop the skyhook, lol. Kareem was dropping 40 point games on Hakeem at the age of 38.

I never suggested anything about head to head or Kareem stopping Shaq, just the ridiculousness of Shaq's statement.

And I dont know much about peak Kareem but I hear his defense was nasty.

[Round Mound]

Kareem had problems vs bigger and stronger opponents like that of Moses Malone. Not saying Kareem wouldnt score he would but Shaq would too and on higher efficiency (maybe score less but on way higher fg%). Shaq would outrebound Kareem imo. Passing wise for open teamates? Kareem would do it better because he had more intangibles and b-ball iq.

Really hard to say who is better.....

Where can i find the video on youtube? on Isiah saying this?

[Milbuck]

Shaq isnt enough to stop the skyhook, lol. Kareem was dropping 40 point games on Hakeem at the age of 38.

I never suggested anything about head to head or Kareem stopping Shaq, just the ridiculousness of Shaq's statement.

And I dont know much about peak Kareem but I hear his defense was nasty.

Yeah I'm not disputing that Shaq was full of shit on the "blocking skyhooks" part. And I'm with you on Kareem, didn't watch too much footage but am aware of his rep as a great defensive anchor. But peak Shaq is criminally underrated in that respect...he was lazy and lacked motivation for a huge chunk of his career..but at his absolute peak, when Phil really connected with him and Shaq "got it"? He was a DPOY-level defensive anchor and a legitimate game changer. I think they're on similar levels in terms of defensive impact..but while Kareem's skyhook would be indefensible for Shaq, I think the pure size, strength, power advantage Shaq has over Kareem would be just as indefensible. And I think Shaq could at the very least put a huge body on Kareem and hang with him as he's getting backed down in the post..while I think 2000 Shaq might overwhelm Kareem physically.

[Smoke117]

Yeah I'm not disputing that Shaq was full of shit on the "blocking skyhooks" part. And I'm with you on Kareem, didn't watch too much footage but am aware of his rep as a great defensive anchor. But peak Shaq is criminally underrated in that respect...he was lazy and lacked motivation for a huge chunk of his career..but at his absolute peak, when Phil really connected with him and Shaq "got it"? He was a DPOY-level defensive anchor and a legitimate game changer. I think they're on similar levels in terms of defensive impact..but while Kareem's skyhook would be indefensible for Shaq, I think the pure size, strength, power advantage Shaq has over Kareem would be just as indefensible. And I think Shaq could at the very least put a huge body on Kareem and hang with him as he's getting backed down in the post..while I think 2000 Shaq might overwhelm Kareem physically.

None of these things have to do with stopping Kareem in the post. You are talking about team defense. Shaq even when he wasn't lazy was never known for his one on one defense. Kareem would do whatever he pleased offensively. Wilt had a much bigger body than Kareem and he couldn't stop him...so I doubt Shaq is.

[Milbuck]

None of these things have to do with stopping Kareem in the post. You are talking about team defense. Shaq even when he wasn't lazy was never known for his one on one defense. Kareem would do whatever he pleased offensively.

And I never said he wouldn't..I just think all things considered, at their peaks, I'd bet on Shaq doing a better job defensively on Kareem than the other way around. That's all.

[sundizz]

Shaq was actually an excellent man to man defender. It's just that he never cared to sustain it for an entire season. In the playoffs however he absolutely was a stud on defense on possessions it really mattered. He took the challenge and bodied up the best of the bigs of his generation no problem. Quick enough to move laterally in front of them and strong enough to get them out of their spot. He would definitely be able to get Kareem out of his spot. Also Shaq's best defense weapon was his offensive punishment. His constant bullying of Kareem on the offensive side would wear down Kareem a lot more than people seem to realize. He would be a step slower over the course of a game with the beating Shaq delivers. I'm not saying that Shaq would stop him - but he would definitely bother Kareem. On the other hand, Kareem really can't do much to stop Shaq....possibly irritate him a little bit but the clear difference in strength, power and explosiveness would make it a typical head2head with Shaq were Shaq dominates the other center.

[PHILA]

Early KAJ with Milwaukee was insanely agile and quick, however he is giving up roughly 100 lbs to Shaq. He could be muscled out of good position by centers like Wilt, Reed, Unseld, Cowens, etc. Wilt at his age was not nearly agile enough, but was able to cause problems due to his strength and reach on the hook. Thurmond was the most effective since he had the strength & agility.

Reed in 1970 a great job using his body, but still was giving up at least 5 inches in height.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8QJQpUH-to&t=15m38s


Below is an example of him driving across the lane right out of the low post and going into his hook shot against Bellamy. Excellent quickness and no need for him to even face up before the drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8l0aq8CwM&t=12m34s

He would definitely be able to get Kareem out of his spot.

Shaq would probably play him like Wilt did, since he also has a big strength advantage over KAJ but is not nearly as agile. Also try to keep him off the right block, and really be aggressive physically when he does catch it there.

In this link below, Wilt is muscling him aggressively, forcing a very tough shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKkQyNyXICQ&t=3m40s


The last thing Shaq would want is him to be comfortable on the right block where he could shoot it with his right hand and protect the shot much better against the help defense by turning to the baseline. He was getting a clean look virtually every time, given that his man was typically unable to challenge the shot and the help defense couldn't get to it without climbing up his arm.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDqCrm0r_w&t=3m20s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDqCrm0r_w&t=6m50s

[SHAQisGOAT]

Early KAJ with Milwaukee was insanely agile and quick, however he is giving up roughly 100 lbs to Shaq.

One of the reasons why Kareem's peak was around 1977... He had put on some considerable weight to deal with them bigger centers, he still had plenty of athleticism, had more experience ofc, smarter on both ends, skyhook was even better, using it more with the left hand, better shooter...
Terrific regular-season in 1977, 53W with a team that "shouldn't" have been close to that tbh, then just went completely wild in the Playoffs (against Cliff Ray, Parish or Walton), as the team was nothing special at all, and 2 of his 3 best teammates were injured.

[Milbuck]

And Kareem would've gotten a couple of DPOY's at least, had the award been given before 1983, so I don't really get the argument you're trying to make...

My argument was just that peak Shaq was an underrated defender. And that his prowess at that time combined with his overwhelming size/strength/power advantage might give him the edge when it comes to the two of them guarding each other. That I'd bet on Shaq doing a better job on Kareem than the other way around.

[sportjames23]

Kareem didn't really like physical play, so Shaq could muscle him around. But Shaq ain't blocking the skyhook.