Why exactly is James Harden so much higher than LeBron in the MVP race?

[Jlamb47]

Not only West >>>>>>> East but Harden played more games and won more games without Houstons 2nd best player. Lebron missed 10 and Harden having a better record in a harder conference with much less talent and without Howard. IMO Harden>Curry in MVP race

[UK2K]

It wasn't intended as an excuse. I was just saying that I personally don't like him for it as too many of those fouls are imaginary.

If you watch a game, people complain about the amount of fouls he draws, but there's no denying he does get fouled a lot.

I'm not a big fan of him shooting 18 FTs but rarely do I see him get a foul call that's not actually a foul.

It is what it is I guess.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

If you watch a game, people complain about the amount of fouls he draws, but there's no denying he does get fouled a lot.

I'm not a big fan of him shooting 18 FTs but rarely do I see him get a foul call that's not actually a foul.

It is what it is I guess.

I watch as much as I can, it's difficult when it isn't nationally televised.

I'll concede that he takes a lot of fouls but from what I've seen (which I'll admit is limited) there's also a healthy number of phantom fouls, too many for my tastes.

[UK2K]

Harden's line: 27.6/5.6/6.8 on .452/.384/.884

James's line: 26.2/5.5/7.4 on .490/.351/.731

Their lines are close but James's is lower than it should be as he spent a chunk of the season playing hurt. Personally I'd still take LeBron over Harden but so far this season their overall statistical performance has been very similar. One also has to consider that LeBron has to adjust to a new team in Cleveland while Harden is in his third season with Houston.

And Houston had four new starters playing the first month of the season (Bev, Jones, Dwight all out, Ariza playing his first season).

The first month of the season was a rough one for Harden, but from Dec 1 til now:

Harden: 28.2, 6.9, 5.6, 2.1 on 48/42/88

Lebron: 27.0, 7.5, 5.3, 1.6 on 50/34/71

Fact is, if the season ended right now, Harden wins because his team has a better record, with worse players, in a much tougher conference.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

And Houston had four new starters playing the first month of the season (Bev, Jones, Dwight all out, Ariza playing his first season).

The first month of the season was a rough one for Harden, but from Dec 1 til now:

Harden: 28.2, 6.9, 5.6, 2.1 on 48/42/88

Lebron: 27.0, 7.5, 5.3, 1.6 on 50/34/71

Fact is, if the season ended right now, Harden wins because his team has a better record, with worse players, in a much tougher conference.

It's true that Houston had to deal with injuries but I'm not sure if that equates to adapting to a new system, especially when it involves incorporating several star players.

Harden has absolutely been on a tear, particularly with his efficiency...but I don't know if comparing them from Dec 1 is fair if we're trying to cut out a shaky start. LeBron's performance since returning from injury has been closer to what everyone expected from him for the season, I'd be curious to see how his line since returning stacks up against Harden's from Dec 1?

You're right on that last point though, if LeBron wants to win the MVP this season there's still work to be done.

[Practice?]

You seriously don't think that would help his case?

Rockets go 52-30 with Harden playing all 82

vs

Rockets go 52-30 with Harden playing 72 and the scenario you presented occurring.

Which is the more MVP deserving year?

Right, but that isn't how things work. Rockets going 52-30 with Harden playing all 82 is better than Rockets going 42-40 with Harden playing 72. LeBron sitting out is not valuable to the Cavs because it hurts them. If what he does hurts them, then it also hurts his MVP case.

[G0ATbe]

He plays out west, on a less stacked team, while putting up better stats, with a much better team record...whats so hard to grasp?

LeBald isn't even the 1st or 2nd best player on his own team and there's at least 3 players on his team with a better case for MVP.

[UK2K]

It's true that Houston had to deal with injuries but I'm not sure if that equates to adapting to a new system, especially when it involves incorporating several star players.

Harden has absolutely been on a tear, particularly with his efficiency...but I don't know if comparing them from Dec 1 is fair if we're trying to cut out a shaky start. LeBron's performance since returning from injury has been closer to what everyone expected from him for the season, I'd be curious to see how his line since returning stacks up against Harden's from Dec 1?

You're right on that last point though, if LeBron wants to win the MVP this season there's still work to be done.

28.2, 6.9, 5.9, 2.1 on 49/30/71

Almost identical as post December Harden. Literally. Except FG%

[24-Inch_Chrome]

28.2, 6.9, 5.9, 2.1 on 49/30/71

Almost identical as post December Harden. Literally. Except FG%

Fair point, thanks for the stats.

We'll just have to see how the rest of the season plays out.

[KungFuJoe]

I'm no fan of Harden but fck Bran and his stacked teams. No way he deserves it over Harden even if Harden only plays on one side of the court. Rockets look awful when he's off the court. He bails them out of so many blown offensive plays McHale should be giving him half his paycheck.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I'm no fan of Harden but fck Bran and his stacked teams. No way he deserves it over Harden even if Harden only plays on one side of the court. Rockets look awful when he's off the court. He bails them out of so many blown offensive plays McHale should be giving him half his paycheck.

Lin sucks

[coin24]

Because harden is the rockets number one option on offense.
Bran has kyrie aka batman as the number one option..

LeBald is more of a second tier pippen type

[DMAVS41]

I'm obviously not saying what Harden is doing isn't impressive - I got him #3. But LeBron's line is probably even better than Harden's. It's just that we have skewed expectations of him.

I think what Harden has done to date is more impressive. I agree that the gap is closing, but Harden has his team as the 3rd see in the West right now.

He's dealt with a team with injuries and he's also putting up:

27/7/6 61% TS and playing improved defense.

I mean...those numbers absolutely blow MVP Rose in 11 out of the Water. And it's not like Lebron is dominating or anything. Yea, he is for the last 12 games or so, but that's not enough.

I think it could get really interesting if the Cavs finish with the 2 seed and Harden/Curry fall off a bit.

[UK2K]

I think what Harden has done to date is more impressive. I agree that the gap is closing, but Harden has his team as the 3rd see in the West right now.

He's dealt with a team with injuries and he's also putting up:

27/7/6 61% TS and playing improved defense.

I mean...those numbers absolutely blow MVP Rose in 11 out of the Water. And it's not like Lebron is dominating or anything. Yea, he is for the last 12 games or so, but that's not enough.

I think it could get really interesting if the Cavs finish with the 2 seed and Harden/Curry fall off a bit.

Even with Lebron 'dominating', his stats are still similar to the stats harden has put up over the last two months.

[G-train]

I get why Curry is higher - 37-8, better player than Harden in a vacuum etc..

But why Harden?

I'd say because MVP is awarded on the entire season, not on last 3 weeks.