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  1. #46
    Operat.Northwoods=9/11 Horde of Temujin's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Hes been amazing. He is a great player but I still can't stand him.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by LikeABosh
    Stop it. Shaq was still great, especially in his first year in Miami. He was like 2nd in MVP voting .
    Regular season. But, in March, Shaq sustained a deep thigh bruise (after which he was never the same player, btw). By Shaq's own estimate, he was at "30 percent" during the post-season.

    He still managed a respectable 18/9 overall. But, 2nd year Wade averaged 27/6/6.

    Shaq sat out half the Wizards series. Wade still led the Heat to a sweep on 31/8/7.

    Wade then, after struggling in a Game 1 loss, went on to score 40, 36, and 28 in Games 2,3, and 4 against the Big Ben-anchored Pistons. He was hurt in a Game 5 blowout Heat win, missed Game 6, and scored 20 while wrapped up like a mummy in a Game 7 loss by 2 pts.

    This was all before, in the 1st round, he became only the 5th player (at the time) in NBA history to average 25/8/6/50% in a series, a sweep of the Nets.


    So, I'm sorry, what were you saying again?
    Last edited by jrong; 02-27-2013 at 01:10 PM.

  3. #48
    3-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    And how different would mass perception of Wade be today if he had gotten the kind of acclaim LeBron would have gotten for doing what he did in those first three years?

    My central thesis or one of them, if and when I ever publish something on the subject, is that Wade suffers from what I term "lagging perception." In other words, because the media and most fans (as a result of the media) have never realized how good he was, they still don't get it.

    If LeBron (or Melo) had Wade's resume from 2004 - 2006, they would have been deified, enshrined. But, Wade wasn't supposed to be that guy. And by the time he had deposed Melo from the #2 spot out of the class of 2003, he would still become the forgotten man in the Kobe/Bron comparisons for best player in the league.

    Personally, though, I could care less about comparisons to LeBron/Kobe, as long as it is acknowledged that Wade is/was on that general level. If people want to then rank the other two above him-- well, I do too.

    What I want to see, when it's all said and done, is Dwyane Wade widely acknowledged as:

    1. 3rd best SG ever
    2. top 15 or 20 player all-time

    I would have a lot more confidence that "they" will eventually realize that he really IS that good if they had EVER realized how good he is.
    If Lebron did what Wade did in his first 3 seasons, but then followed up with what Wade has done in the next 7 seasons, I really don't think he'd get much much more acclaim then Wade has gotten, and would clearly be considered a disappointment. On the other hand, if Wade did exactly what Lebron has done the last 10 years, he might not be as hyped cause he wasn't that hyped from the beginning, but he'd still be widely regarded as the best player in the league, at the very least a top 2 player of the last 10 years along with Kobe, and potentially a top 5 player of all-time. And if Wade did what he did in his first 3 seasons, and then followed it up with what Lebron did in the next 7 seasons i.e. 2x champ, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP, multiple 60 win seasons, no durability issues, consistently playing at an elite level all year round, etc., he'd get just as much if not more hype then Lebron right now.

    He's not in the same class. If your problem is that he doesn't get enough credit and gets overshadowed by Lebron/Kobe, well what do you expect? The media isn't going to cover everyone and they will obviously cover those that are better and in a different class then someone.

    By the way, 06 and 09 were the 2 seasons where all 3 were arguably the 3 best players in the league and playing at a similar level. I vividly remember Wade getting a ton of coverage those years, maybe not as much but right on par with Lebron and Kobe.
    Last edited by guy; 02-27-2013 at 01:15 PM.

  4. #49
    Serious playground baller Jolokia's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Wade has always been flying under the radar even when he got a triple-dub knocking off top ranked Kentucky to get into the final four. Things will never change. The Heat drafted the right guy is all I'm saying. 2x champ

  5. #50
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by guy
    If Lebron did what Wade did in his first 3 seasons, but then followed up with what Wade has done in the next 7 seasons, I really don't think he'd get much much more acclaim then Wade has gotten. On the other hand, if Wade did exactly what Lebron has done the last 10 years, he might not be as hyped cause he wasn't that hyped from the beginning, but he'd still be widely regarded as the best player in the league, at the very least a top 2 player of the last 10 years along with Kobe, and potentially a top 5 player of all-time. And if Wade did what he did in his first 3 seasons, and then followed it up with what Lebron did in the next 7 seasons i.e. 2x champ, 2x Finals MVP, 3x MVP, multiple 60 win seasons, no durability issues, consistently playing at an elite level all year round, etc., he'd get just as much if not more hype then Lebron right now.

    He's not in the same class. If your problem is that he doesn't get enough credit and gets overshadowed by Lebron/Kobe, well what do you expect? The media isn't going to cover everyone and they will obviously cover those that are better and in a different class then someone.

    By the way, 06 and 09 were the 2 seasons where all 3 were arguably the 3 best players in the league and playing at a similar level. I vividly remember Wade getting a ton of coverage those years, maybe not as much but right on par with Lebron and Kobe.
    They spotlight Wade when he does something that can't be ignored, like 2006 or 2009. But, their default setting is to act as if he doesn't exist.

    Anyway, I thought we had wrapped this up, but I hope you're not denigrating Wade's "last seven years." In 2007, he averaged 29/5/8 through 50 games. Shaq was hurt half the season, so Wade's second option was Jason Kapono. If healthy Wade and Shaq were in play (Shaq got healthy right when Wade went out) then LeBron and, uh, Hughes do not get the Cavs to the Finals.

    After that, Wade did everything Kobe ever did prior to receiving help. Missed the playoffs once (2008, the injury year) and took two consecutive replacement rosters to the first round, including a Game 7.

    And in 2011, I'll make the case that Wade was the best player in the league, factoring in regular and postseason. (And as you can see, I'm pretty good at making Wade's case. I mean that's because he always has a case, but for some reason, I seem to be the best one on the Internet at making it.)

    In 2012, injured and deferring Wade still posted stats that are alpha-level-acceptable (22/5/5/50%) in the season and 23/6/5 on one leg in the playoffs. And, in 2013, well, have you been watching since December?

    So what was this about Wade's last seven years again? Wade is arguably the most underrated superstar in sports history.
    Last edited by jrong; 02-27-2013 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #51
    Banned 305Baller's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    They spotlight Wade when he does something that can't be ignored, like 2006 or 2009. But, their default setting is to act if he doesn't exist.

    Anyway, I thought we had wrapped this up, but I hope you're not denigrating Wade's "last seven years." In 2007, he averaged 29/5/8 through 50 games. Shaq was hurt half the season, so Wade's second option was Jason Kapono. If healthy Wade and Shaq were in play (Shaq got healthy right when Wade went out) then LeBron and Hughes do not get the Cavs to the Finals.

    After that, Wade did everything Kobe ever did prior to receiving help. Missed the playoffs once (2008, the injury year) and took two consecutive replacement rosters to the first round, including a Game 7.

    And in 2011, I'll make the case that Wade was the best player in the league, factoring in regular and postseason. (And as you can see, I'm pretty good at making Wade's case. I mean that's because he always has a case, but for some reason, I seem to be the best one on the Internet at making it).

    In 2012, injured and deferring Wade still posted stats that are alpha-acceptable (22/5/5/50%) in the season and 23/6/5 on one leg in the playoffs. And, in 2013, well, have you been watching since December?

    So what was this about Wade's last seven years? Wade is arguably the most underrated superstar in sports history. Period.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by 305Baller
    So who is then? Derek Jeter? Who else fits the profile of a genuine supernova but is popularly viewed as a mere, lesser nova?
    Last edited by jrong; 02-27-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Wade is definitely looking better than he did last year. By the way, over his last 10 games, he's averaged 25/6/6 on 55% with 2.6 spg and 1.2 bpg.

    Quote Originally Posted by ripthekik
    i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.
    If Lebron keeps playing the way he is now, or plays like he did last year, there's no way to discredit him.

    Quote Originally Posted by comerb
    Don't worry, Shaq will tell you all about it. You won't even have to ask.
    He should ask Lebron where he got the "Check My Stats" shirt. It'd be very useful for Shaq. Or maybe take out a paid advertisement where Shaq informs people of his championships and numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOBE143


    LeBron probably has the most stacked team in nba history..
    Not even close.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by guy
    Point being, the media doesn't just cover Lebron significantly more then Wade because of some narrative they are trying to produce. They cover him more cause he's in a different class.
    No, they cover him the way they do because of ratings, hits, etc. And a senior ESPN writer admitted this to me.

    And why does LeBron have such a high Q-rating? Could it be because he was on the cover of S.I. in 10th grade? And ESPN broadcast his entire senior season on national TV? And his drafting was the most hyped ever?

    Wade came in under the radar. He didn't generate ratings then, and so he again didn't draw attention. Thus he trailed further in star perception, and so the cycle continued and has continued to this day, even though, there were a lot of years when his play was on par with anyone's.
    Last edited by jrong; 02-27-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  10. #55
    Trump Towers LikeABosh's Avatar
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    Regular season. But, in March, Shaq sustained a deep thigh bruise (after which he was never the same player, btw). By Shaq's own estimate, he was at "30 percent" during the post-season.

    He still managed a respectable 18/9 overall. But, 2nd year Wade averaged 27/6/6.

    Shaq sat out half the Wizards series. Wade still led the Heat to a sweep on 31/8/7.

    Wade then, after struggling in a Game 1 loss, went on to score 40, 36, and 28 in Games 2,3, and 4 against the Big Ben-anchored Pistons. He was hurt in a Game 5 blowout Heat win, missed Game 6, and scored 20 while wrapped up like a mummy in a Game 7 loss by 2 pts.

    This was all before, in the 1st round, he became only the 5th player (at the time) in NBA history to average 25/8/6/50% in a series, a sweep of the Nets.


    So, I'm sorry, what were you saying again?
    I agree with you. Wade is my boy. I was just saying that Shaq was still a very good player and that poster was trying to make him sound like some scrub

  11. #56
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    in his second year, in the first round of the playoffs he joined an elite club(jordan, bird, magic, wilt) when he put up 30+ppg, +50%fg 7 reb, 7 assts in a playoff series. and swept the wizards.

    in the second round, he did it again, but better. 30+ppg, +50%fg 8 reb, 8 assts. and swept the nets.

    in the ECF, against the exact same pistons team with the all time great defense that made kobe look like the punk in the previous finals, he easily dismantled them before succumbing to injury. had it not been for the injury, he most likely wouldve went on to the finals and mightve won the ship that year.

    in his third year in the ECF, against that same pistons team, he scored 30+ppg on 69%fg over the first 4 games, doing whatever he wanted. only kareem has had a better 4 game stretch.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDdlEFMIA5Y

    and in the finals, he put up one of the best, if not the best finals performance in history, if you take into consideration the circumstances.

    by the end of his third year, he had scored more playoff points than any player in the history of the NBA had at the end of their third year.
    Last edited by f0und; 02-27-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  12. #57
    3-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    They spotlight Wade when he does something that can't be ignored, like 2006 or 2009. But, their default setting is to act as if he doesn't exist.
    And Lebron and Kobe have basically done something every single season that can't be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    Anyway, I thought we had wrapped this up, but I hope you're not denigrating Wade's "last seven years." In 2007, he averaged 29/5/8 through 50 games. Shaq was hurt half the season, so Wade's second option was Jason Kapono. If healthy Wade and Shaq were in play (Shaq got healthy right when Wade went out) then LeBron and, uh, Hughes do not get the Cavs to the Finals.
    Players aren't covered based on "ifs".


    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    After that, Wade did everything Kobe ever did prior to receiving help. Missed the playoffs once (2008, the injury year) and took two consecutive replacement rosters to the first round, including a Game 7.
    Wade got plenty of recognition for 09. Maybe he didn't get as much as Kobe did for 06 and 07, but he still got plenty and anyway, I wouldn't say he deserved as much recognition. What Kobe was doing that season scoring wise with all his 80+, 60+, 50+ points games was historic.

    In 2010, it seemed like Wade just coasted throughout the season. He was still great, but his numbers dropped across the board, and they were clearly worse then Lebron's and at best equal to Kobe's but they led their teams to much better records.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    And in 2011, I'll make the case that Wade was the best player in the league, factoring in regular and postseason. (And as you can see, I'm pretty good at making Wade's case. I mean that's because he always has a case, but for some reason, I seem to be the best one on the Internet at making it.)
    I won't disagree with him having a case for 2011, in fact I probably would give it to him. But he doesn't ALWAYS have a case. He usually doesn't. He's had 3 seasons at most where he had a case, and I would say he was only the best in 2011.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    In 2012, injured and deferring Wade still posted stats that are alpha-level-acceptable (22/5/5/50%) in the season and 23/6/5 on one leg in the playoffs. And, in 2013, well, have you been watching since December?
    How often are 22/5/5 players that talked about, especially when there teammate is putting up 27/8/7 on even better efficiency?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    So what was this about Wade's last seven years again? Wade is arguably the most underrated superstar in sports history.
    I'm not denigrating his 7 seasons. He just isn't at the same level as Lebron.

  13. #58
    NBA All-star chazzy's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    On the flipside of Wade not getting enough credit, he also gets a pass for negative things. He just gets ignored altogether relative to Lebron/Kobe

  14. #59
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by guy
    And Lebron and Kobe have basically done something every single season that can't be ignored
    My overall point is that, whenever healthy, Wade is that level of player. He has that ability. I have no problem with him being placed on third on that tier (for reasons among which is durability), but healthy Wade is on that tier.

    If you disagree, then we'll have to agree that we disagree.

  15. #60
    3-time NBA All-Star
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    Default Re: So how about Dwyane Wade for the month?

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    No, they cover him the way they do because of ratings, hits, etc. And a senior ESPN writer admitted this to me.

    And why does LeBron have such a high Q-rating? Could it be because he was on the cover of S.I. in 10th grade? And ESPN broadcast his entire senior season on national TV? And his drafting was the most hyped ever?

    Wade came in under the radar. He didn't generate ratings then, and so he again didn't draw attention. Thus he trailed further in star perception, and so the cycle continued and has continued to this day, even though, there were a lot of years when his play was on par with anyone's.
    I really don't think you've gotten my point at all. The point is Lebron continues to get more ratings, hits, etc because he's a greater player.

    Look at this scenario. Lets say it Wade that was ridiculously hyped up before his rookie year while Lebron flew under the radar, but then lets say they had the exact same careers they had. Who do you think would've produced more ratings? Until the middle of 07, probably Wade, but since then it would've still been Lebron because of his level of play and his consistency which has resulted in a higher level of play overall.

    Quote Originally Posted by jrong
    My overall point is that, whenever healthy, Wade is that level of player. He has that ability. I have no problem with him being placed on third on that tier (for reasons among which is durability), but healthy Wade is on that tier.

    If you disagree, then we'll have to agree that we disagree.
    Sure whenever he's healthy or not taking a huge step back (not sure which one its been since 2011), I'd definitely agree he's on their level. But if you have to qualify something like that with "whenever healthy", then overall he's not in that tier. Its not really fair to players that are healthy and are playing at that level much more of the time.

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