Who would have been an equivalent backcourt sidekick to Pippen in the 90s

[3ball]

2ball is scrambling on this one, now, too

Not worth responding to.. learn to make a substantive argument.. ortg of 3rd options? Are you serious?

I'm targeting the OP, and my last post took him down

[ballinhun8]

No Bulls fan would ever disrespect or discredit Pippen's importantance the way 3ball is right now.




But some moron claiming a guy averaging 12/8 making a team stacked??? Fookin hilarious

[3ball]

No Bulls fan would ever disrespect or discredit Pippen's importantance the way 3ball is right now.




But some moron claiming a guy averaging 12/8 making a team stacked??? Fookin hilarious

I'm not disrespecting pippen and acknowledged what was accurate about Pip

Tell me what part of my last takedown of the OP (post #59) is inaccurate

I'll wait
.

[SpaceJam2]

Not worth responding to.. learn to make a substantive argument.. ortg of 3rd options? Are you serious?

I'm targeting the OP, and my last post took him down

Of course you wont. You got bodied again.

What's so bad about Jordan now being the #2 best player ever? The second GOAT? Is that really so bad for you to accept?

[SpaceJam2]

No Bulls fan would ever disrespect or discredit Pippen's importantance the way 3ball is right now.

He's clearly not a Bulls fan he is an MJ fan. Just like all the "Lakers" fans that are just butt hurt Kobe fans.

It happens, but at least LeBron fans admit they are fans of a player, not like MJ and Kobe fans

[LostCause]

EDIT: The 93 suns were undoubtedly the best team Jordan beat, with KJ as the #2 option

I'm not really sure if that's true

I mean, in the sense of just measuring "talent" on a team then sure. Personally, I think the 96 Sonics team was better than the 93 Suns

Payton/Kemp/Shcrempf/Hawkins with Perkins coming off the bench. Lot of folks just don't remember how good Schrempf actually was (He was an all-star the year before and after 96). Also led the league in ORtg and was All-NBA 3rd team in 95, playing for Seattle

The names on the Suns might register more with ppl today, but that Sonics team was just as good if not better IMO largely due to their defense (2nd best Defense in the league behind the historic 96 Bulls, 8th best Offense)

[AussieSteve]

Not worth responding to.. learn to make a substantive argument.. ortg of 3rd options? Are you serious?

I'm targeting the OP, and my last post took him down

I'm not usually one for emojis, but...




I don't live on here like you do, so you'll have to wait for an actual reply. But, spoiler alert... you're an idiot.

[SpaceJam2]

I'm not usually one for emojis, but...




I don't live on here like you do, so you'll have to wait for an actual reply. But, spoiler alert... you're an idiot.

I think the truth is finally coming out and he doesn't like it

[AussieSteve]

Blah blah blah.


.

So let's recap.

I asked which guards (note guards) would be an equivalent 2nd option for a top tier C / PF as Pippen was for Jordan.

Your answer was that all the other top tier players already had 2nd options who were better than Pippen. Pressed for evidence, you sited Xavier McDaniel (PF/SF) and Kevin Willis (PF/C). Granted they were worthy all stars for the one season in which they were all stars, but i have a couple comments.

1. They were not guards, so... please pay attention to the thread topic
2. They were not second options to top tier players, but to guys who were a rung or two below the Barkleys, Robinsons and Hakeems of the league.
3. They clearly were not actually as good as Pippen
4. The fact that you can only identify two out of 12 playoff series during the first 3peat where pippen was outscored by his opposing second option, when:
a. Scoring was probably the weakest part of Pippen's game and
b. Pippen had Jordan attempting 28 field goals a game in the 93 playoffs, far more than any other first option in the league

pretty much proves my contention that Pippen was just about the best second option going around at the time.

So, thanks for helping me establish how great Pippen was. Do you have have thoughts on which guards would have made for a more level playing field between say the 1990 or 91 Bulls and 76ers? Or do you think Hersey Hawkins was as good as Pippen too? I think a guy who could make plays and hit an outside shot consistently in place of Hersey would have made for a very interesting series.

[SpaceJam2]

So let's recap.

I asked which guards (note guards) would be an equivalent 2nd option for a top tier C / PF as Pippen was for Jordan.

Your answer was that all the other top tier players already had 2nd options who were better than Pippen. Pressed for evidence, you sited Xavier McDaniel (PF/SF) and Kevin Willis (PF/C). Granted they were worthy all stars for the one season in which they were all stars, but i have a couple comments.

1. They were not guards, so... please pay attention to the thread topic
2. They were not second options to top tier players, but to guys who were a rung or two below the Barkleys, Robinsons and Hakeems of the league.
3. They clearly were not actually as good as Pippen
4. The fact that you can only identify two out of 12 playoff series during the first 3peat where pippen was outscored by his opposing second option, when:
a. Scoring was probably the weakest part of Pippen's game and
b. Pippen had Jordan attempting 28 field goals a game in the 93 playoffs, far more than any other first option in the league

pretty much proves my contention that Pippen was just about the best second option going around at the time.

So, thanks for helping me establish how great Pippen was. Do you have have thoughts on which guards would have made for a more level playing field between say the 1990 or 91 Bulls and 76ers? Or do you think Hersey Hawkins was as good as Pippen too? I think a guy who could make plays and hit an outside shot consistently in place of Hersey would have made for a very interesting series.

Excellent post and recap

[3ball]

So let's recap.

I asked which guards (note guards) would be an equivalent 2nd option for a top tier C / PF as Pippen was for Jordan.

Why would you ask for guards when Pippen was a forward?

That alone makes your question not worth answering and dumb

And the reason why you can't respond to my post is because it wasn't opinion - I simply informed you of the facts, which I'll repeat here:

Nearly all championship teams have the better 2nd option, but Pippen was the worse 2nd option in most series that MJ played from 1996-1998 (3 rings), and also 1988-1990 (nearly made the Finals twice)

Otoh, guys like Lebron, Magic and Bird had better 2nd and 3rd options in most series for all their championship runs.. none of them won 3 rings with the worse 2nd option like MJ did from 96-98'

So the narrative that I've cornered and reduced your thread to (that mj had SOME help and didn't do it alone) is moot because he clearly had the least help, which is why he had to produce the goat stats

Again, there's nothing to refute there.. keep digging your hole baby boy

[sdot_thadon]

Why would you ask for guards when Pippen was a forward?

That alone makes your question not worth answering and dumb

And the reason why you can't respond to my post is because it wasn't opinion - I simply informed you of the facts, which I'll repeat here:

I'm pretty sure the point was the other superstar level guys during the 1st 3peat are frontcourt guys. Mj was a backcourt guy with a frontcourt sidekick, so he inverted the pairing for the other guys. I'm pretty sure that wasn't too complicated for the rest of us, them goalposts man.......

[And1AllDay]

So let's recap.

I asked which guards (note guards) would be an equivalent 2nd option for a top tier C / PF as Pippen was for Jordan.

Your answer was that all the other top tier players already had 2nd options who were better than Pippen. Pressed for evidence, you sited Xavier McDaniel (PF/SF) and Kevin Willis (PF/C). Granted they were worthy all stars for the one season in which they were all stars, but i have a couple comments.

1. They were not guards, so... please pay attention to the thread topic
2. They were not second options to top tier players, but to guys who were a rung or two below the Barkleys, Robinsons and Hakeems of the league.
3. They clearly were not actually as good as Pippen
4. The fact that you can only identify two out of 12 playoff series during the first 3peat where pippen was outscored by his opposing second option, when:
a. Scoring was probably the weakest part of Pippen's game and
b. Pippen had Jordan attempting 28 field goals a game in the 93 playoffs, far more than any other first option in the league

pretty much proves my contention that Pippen was just about the best second option going around at the time.

So, thanks for helping me establish how great Pippen was. Do you have have thoughts on which guards would have made for a more level playing field between say the 1990 or 91 Bulls and 76ers? Or do you think Hersey Hawkins was as good as Pippen too? I think a guy who could make plays and hit an outside shot consistently in place of Hersey would have made for a very interesting series.

[AussieSteve]

Why would you ask for guards when Pippen was a forward?

That alone makes your question not worth answering and dumb

And the reason why you can't respond to my post is because it wasn't opinion - I simply informed you of the facts, which I'll repeat here:

Nearly all championship teams have the better 2nd option, but Pippen was the worse 2nd option in most series that MJ played from 1996-1998 (3 rings), and also 1988-1990 (nearly made the Finals twice)

Otoh, guys like Lebron, Magic and Bird had better 2nd and 3rd options in most series for all their championship runs.. none of them won 3 rings with the worse 2nd option like MJ did from 96-98'

So the narrative that I've cornered and reduced your thread to (that mj had SOME help and didn't do it alone) is moot because he clearly had the least help, which is why he had to produce the goat stats

Again, there's nothing to refute there.. keep digging your hole baby boy

What about guys like Barkley, Hakeem and Robinson during the bulls first 3peat?

[And1AllDay]

What about guys like Barkley, Hakeem and Robinson during the bulls first 3peat?

Uh...oh...