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Old 01-28-2011, 02:09 PM   #46
Ne 1
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

This is basketball not baseball. Put up all the stats you want, when it comes down it, if you had to pick one guy to try and win the game, it wouldn't be Rashard or Shawn Marion.

Statistics tell us that Cleveland should have won the last 2 championships, that LeBron is better than Bird and Magic, etc. etc.

So yeah, maybe Kobe is overrated in the clutch according to stats. But he has a reputation for a reason among coaches and front-office guys who have been in the league forever for a reason.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:12 PM   #47
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenneBell
He not that type of player. That wouldn't be playing to his strengths.

Playing to Kobe strengths would have him inbounding the ball around halfcourt and going from there with the ball in his hands.


The only other player who has those type of skills is probably Pierce. Boston has the option of going to whoever suits there needs in the clutch. LA does not.

Fisher almost always get his clutch shots assisted out of broken plays. Gasol is almost always going to miss FTs in the clutch. Like clockwork. Everyone else you can't count on for anything in the last few minutes.

actually is you look at last year Phil starting doing that. We all know the results. I think Phil just has to do a good job of mixing it up. There was a time where he ran the same inbounds play EVERY play for a gamewinning shot.

Last edited by IGOTGAME : 01-28-2011 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:13 PM   #48
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by yobore
of course he's the most feared because everyone knows he's going to shoot. whereas on other teams, they fear several players a little bit, on the Lakers everyone is worried about stopping Kobe.

i think people on this thread are arguing different things. those of us who read the article are talking about winning games down the stretch, and those who discard it are talking about single-handedly winning games down the stretch.

To be honest I read it halfway and stopped. If you've been active on this site the past two years, then you'd know there have been other articles and/or websites detailing how overrated Kobe is in clutch situations. Everything in this article is telling us what we know and what has already been said. Dan Le Batard (MiamiHerald) wrote a piece about this a season ago iirc.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:17 PM   #49
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
actually is you look at last year Phil starting doing that. We all know the results. I think Phil just has to do a good job of mixing it up. There was a time where he ran the same inbounds play EVERY play for a gamewinning shot.
Yup, he'd run the same stack play he ran for MJ.

Eventually, he's figured out that they tick a little differently.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:18 PM   #50
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpols
Do you guys watch the game of basketball? How are you going to use numbers about so-and-so many seconds and so-and-so many points behind/points ahead to determine what is essentially an attitude(being clutch is an attitude, a mentality). These figures can be so easily maniplated by changing the parameters for what is and what isn't a clutch situation.

What ever the case, what you have posted DOES NOT pass the eye ball test of all the people who are at the games sitting courtside and who know the game of basketball better than anyone..

Chris paul is a quick point guard with a decent jumpshot and great passing ability, but he stands at 6'0 tall.

Kobe bryant is a 6'5-6'6 shooting guard with a much better offensive arsenal of moves to get a shot off(he is a much better scorer than paul). That and kobe has better lift and will have an easier time getting a better jumpshot off(plus he's very, very used to shooting contested jumpers; he does it all the time when he shoots out of the post).

Kobe will be the game winners leader in NBA HISTORY by the time he retires...

But seriously.. have numbers and stats with made up parameters replaced common sense and watching the games?

repped for a great post
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:19 PM   #51
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by glidedrxlr22
I've always believed in what the article writer stated in regards to the opposition knowing that Kobe is gonna jack it up every single time. Why do the Lakers take the guess work out of the equation for the defense? Yes, by sheer will, skill and athletecism...and with a little bit of luck thrown in, Kobe will make some clutch shots.....but how trully effective is this whole plan? Last year it didn't matter cause the Lakers had homecourt, but in a year like this one where homecourt will be hard fought, what is the Lakers best clutch plan? To simply say give it to Kobe and move outta the way? Is that trully it? Why not run some Ray Allen type pick and screen type plays for him instead of just giving him the ball and having him go 1 on 3? How many times has Kobe forced up a bad shot and then looked around frustrated as if nobody was open?
actually if you look at the numbers you'll see kobe is not the only one touching the ball in "clutch" time

of those lakerslisted on the clutch stats for this year

kobe has had 34 fga's in clutch time
odom 9
gasol 11
fisher 12
so basically that means kobe takes roughly 50% of the shots in clutch time and those listed take the other 50%

kobe is getting to the line having 26 fta in clutch time compared to gasols 6.5 and odoms 3 fisher has not made one trip to the line

kobe also leads the team in assists in clutch time at 9 assists

i cannot for the life of me find why anyone wouldn't want the ball in kobe's hands in clutch time
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:21 PM   #52
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenneBell
One day these stats guys will realize that basketball isn't baseball and that there are things that can't be covered by statistics, advanced or otherwise. Until that day, we'll get articles like this.

Meanwhile the Lakers continue to leave statisticians dumbfounded because they win without necessarily having the best stats.

repped for a great post.

hey glide..read this guys post ^^^ then weep fella..
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:21 PM   #53
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

So the Heat choke again in a close game and ESPN decides it's time to put up its yearly article about how Kobe isn't clutch. What a surprise.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:29 PM   #54
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodhi
So the Heat choke again in a close game and ESPN decides it's time to put up its yearly article about how Kobe isn't clutch. What a surprise.


I stopped reading truehoop a long time ago. Abbot has some sort of agenda against Kobe. Every month or so, he always post this very same topic.

He's done this for the past few years and usually gets shot down come playoff time.

People keep trying to quantify Kobe's production through stats and for some reason it never comes out like the statisticians predict. Why is that?

Kobe was supposed to fall off a cliff in '09. The Lakers weren't going to make it out of the first round in '10. Gasol is going to be an MVP-candidate in '10. Artest's game is going to screw up the Lakers' offense. And on and on...

@ Abbot having to bring up examples from 13-14 years ago.

You know damn well a lot of defenders are shaking in their sneakers if Kobe has the ball in his hands in crunch time. Any coach would draw it up for Kobe.

Last edited by Ne 1 : 01-28-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:35 PM   #55
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
I stopped reading truehoop a long time ago. Abbot has some sort of agenda against Kobe. Every month or so, he always post this very same topic.

He's done this for the past few years and usually gets shot down come playoff time.

People keep trying to quantify Kobe's production through stats and for some reason it never comes out like the statisticians predict. Why is that?

Kobe was supposed to fall off a cliff in '09. The Lakers weren't going to make it out of the first round in '10. Gasol is going to be an MVP-candidate in '10. Artest's game is going to screw up the Lakers' offense. And on and on...

@ Abbot having to bring up examples from 13-14 years ago.

You know damn well a lot of defenders are shaking in their sneakers if Kobe has the ball in his hands in crunch time. Any coach would draw it up for Kobe.

I know you're posting on SOHH b.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:38 PM   #56
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

KB is clutch...i'd consider him as my second choice.

my first is Reggie Miller, whoever can score like he did against the Knicks wins for me. also, he's not a bad shooter and can pop off the screen like no other player in this league!
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:41 PM   #57
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Hey Lakerlove420 how surprising you rep people who favor Kobe. You rep anyone that says….blah, blah, blah stats don’t matter.

Facts: Kobe has made a lot of clutch stats. Kobe has taken many attempts at clutch shots. Kobe has missed more than half his clutch attempts.

The “makes” stay in everyone’s mind because they’re shown over and over in highlights. So perception is overrated. If they made highlights of missed attempts and gave them just as much focus then I wonder if perception would change for stars taking clutch shots and the aura these players create.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:55 PM   #58
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Kobe misses a lot of clutch jumpshots and he makes his fair share of them aswell.. Still if i were to take anyone in the clutch by themselves then it would be him, sure i'd take ray ray if there was a play drawn up for him and same for even D-Fish, but if i wanted one guy to try and seal a game for me i would take kobe. Gotta remember that in order for a clutch team play to be pulled off it requires 5 guys to be in sync and clutch and sometimes you just don't have that.

Anyway just my opinion
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:56 PM   #59
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by glidedrxlr22
Hey Lakerlove420 how surprising you rep people who favor Kobe. You rep anyone that says….blah, blah, blah stats don’t matter.

Facts: Kobe has made a lot of clutch stats. Kobe has taken many attempts at clutch shots. Kobe has missed more than half his clutch attempts.

The “makes” stay in everyone’s mind because they’re shown over and over in highlights. So perception is overrated. If they made highlights of missed attempts and gave them just as much focus then I wonder if perception would change for stars taking clutch shots and the aura these players create.

about your first sentence..yes true because they share my point of view.
How can you and your buttbuddy hollinger continue to live your lives around these numbers that more than not do not add up..
meanwhile last year Kobe hits like 7 game winners in your face and repeats as Champion bro.. meanwhile you're looking down at your sheet trying to formulate a great sentence that will show Kobe in a bad light.
lol bro.. lol.

I'll take the enjoyment of the games and championships and all that comes with it than your scrounging number notepad that = to nothing more than something to start a fire or wipe my ass with...



(and about your last paragraph... hmmm interesting theory but c'mon son..
you are still living in denial..
not people that say Kobe is the man to go to..
that is 'The Truth'
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:00 PM   #60
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Default Re: Kobe clutch myth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakerlove420
(and about your last paragraph... hmmm interesting theory but c'mon son..
you are still living in denial..
not people that say Kobe is the man to go to..
that is 'The Truth'

No. This is "The Truth"

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