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Old 06-23-2019, 11:36 PM   #31
Vino24
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

LeBron took the GOAT bar from MJ and set it higher
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Old 06-23-2019, 11:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by jstern
Go back? What's going to change in terms of Bird's thinking? Back then he said that Lebron is better, one of the GOATs. But if he wants to win he would go with Kobe, if he wants to have fun he would go with Lebron.

Lebron has lost four more times since.

Perhaps I didn't make my point clear in my previous post, so I apologize. But the main point was that people, particularly the more casual fans are so limited in their understanding of what makes any player good. And they simply boil it down to stats.

Not being familiar with the players they won't understand why having a Kobe might lead to more championships under similar circumstances despite having lesser stats.

As time passes and fans become less knowledgeable of the two, Kobe is going to become more disrespected. And Lebron James more overrated due to stats that contribute less than what they show.

It will become more about this number is > than that number, and the things that a Larry Bird, Jeff Van Gundy, and countless other players see, the reality, will mean nothing.

It's much easier to go "This player has X amount of triple doubles," than to go in the ins and outs of their games, and how it directly led to wins.
The ins and outs is precisely why Lebron is better than Kobe in most people's opinion. To think Kobe is better than Lebron isn't outlandish though. There's respectable guys who have Kobe above Lebron. What's outlandish is you going around proselytizing that stats isn't everything like its some secret knowledge. Just because you once based your entire opinion on stats doesn't mean everyone else is also that idiotic.
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Old 06-24-2019, 04:04 AM   #33
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by FKAri
The ins and outs is precisely why Lebron is better than Kobe in most people's opinion. To think Kobe is better than Lebron isn't outlandish though. There's respectable guys who have Kobe above Lebron. What's outlandish is you going around proselytizing that stats isn't everything like its some secret knowledge. Just because you once based your entire opinion on stats doesn't mean everyone else is also that idiotic.

Idiotic? And here I thought you were one of my great admirers. I guess the Kobe subject is a sensitive one, seeing the way you latched out.

What's interesting is the different interpretations that people have when reading the same content. 3RRR says something about me thinking I'm a basketball genius, and you point out my comment on how idiotic I was for giving Lebron the edge over Kobe because he put up better stats.

As far as stats go, I never used stats to determine who the GOAT is. Jordan's 6 for 6 has always been irrelevant to me. To me it has always been the way he performed under pressure.

The way a player steps it up. The way they make things happen. The player's mind. Style of play has always been important also, and that's a reflection of the player's mind.

You have things like the flu game vs Lebron getting visibly disinterested during close out game 6s, letting the other team force a game 7. You have greater determination, focus when things don't go Jordan's way, versus Lebron's listless body language. Or his reaction after the JR Smith blunder.

It's just a different level of dominance that results in constant GOAT level moments. Not a knock on Lebron. I say itís a genetic, body chemistry thing unique to Jordan.

And yes, I would say that 99% of fans, specially in the future will use 50% fg > 45% fg to determine who the better player was. With Kobe being dismissed the way he was in this video. And what I was suggesting in my comment is that you have to consider what the majority of players and great basketball minds say when it comes to who the better player was. That sometimes there's more than meet the eyes.

You understand Lebron ball very well versus Jordan's GOAT level of off ball play. The concept of how it will get you lots of wins, but when playing the toughest of competition, due to the fact that all of Lebron's teammates have to sacrifice their game for him, they are made to be less of an asset. Gets Lebron more misleading stats, fool people into constantly claiming he just needs more help. While with Jordan, his game allows his teammates to play their game, instead of them having to be overly focused on what he will do next as he dribbles the ball.
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Old 06-24-2019, 05:32 AM   #34
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by jstern
Idiotic? And here I thought you were one of my great admirers. I guess the Kobe subject is a sensitive one, seeing the way you latched out.

What's interesting is the different interpretations that people have when reading the same content. 3RRR says something about me thinking I'm a basketball genius, and you point out my comment on how idiotic I was for giving Lebron the edge over Kobe because he put up better stats.

As far as stats go, I never used stats to determine who the GOAT is. Jordan's 6 for 6 has always been irrelevant to me. To me it has always been the way he performed under pressure.

The way a player steps it up. The way they make things happen. The player's mind. Style of play has always been important also, and that's a reflection of the player's mind.

You have things like the flu game vs Lebron getting visibly disinterested during close out game 6s, letting the other team force a game 7. You have greater determination, focus when things don't go Jordan's way, versus Lebron's listless body language. Or his reaction after the JR Smith blunder.

It's just a different level of dominance that results in constant GOAT level moments. Not a knock on Lebron. I say itís a genetic, body chemistry thing unique to Jordan.

And yes, I would say that 99% of fans, specially in the future will use 50% fg > 45% fg to determine who the better player was. With Kobe being dismissed the way he was in this video. And what I was suggesting in my comment is that you have to consider what the majority of players and great basketball minds say when it comes to who the better player was. That sometimes there's more than meet the eyes.

You understand Lebron ball very well versus Jordan's GOAT level of off ball play. The concept of how it will get you lots of wins, but when playing the toughest of competition, due to the fact that all of Lebron's teammates have to sacrifice their game for him, they are made to be less of an asset. Gets Lebron more misleading stats, fool people into constantly claiming he just needs more help. While with Jordan, his game allows his teammates to play their game, instead of them having to be overly focused on what he will do next as he dribbles the ball.

With regards to comparison between Lebron and Kobe's scoring, I think more would look at Lobe's struggles in the big moments (40%fg for his career in finals, 39%of in game 7's with only 21 ppg, 25%fg in the only finals game 7 he played).

Given that Lebron is indisputably a better playmaker, defensive player, rebounder, shot blocker, and floor general (you could conflate that with being a playmaker), the only advantage Kobe would have is in scoring. But he doesnt have one. This would make sense if Kobe averaged a higher career ppg and we start negating fg%,but he doesn't. Lebron isnt just a more prolific scorer. He does it more efficiently.
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Old 06-24-2019, 08:40 AM   #35
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by Mr Feeny
With regards to comparison between Lebron and Kobe's scoring, I think more would look at Lobe's struggles in the big moments (40%fg for his career in finals, 39%of in game 7's with only 21 ppg, 25%fg in the only finals game 7 he played).

Given that Lebron is indisputably a better playmaker, defensive player, rebounder, shot blocker, and floor general (you could conflate that with being a playmaker), the only advantage Kobe would have is in scoring. But he doesnt have one. This would make sense if Kobe averaged a higher career ppg and we start negating fg%,but he doesn't. Lebron isnt just a more prolific scorer. He does it more efficiently.

but the heart test and eye test says otherwise.
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Old 06-24-2019, 12:38 PM   #36
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Feeny
With regards to comparison between Lebron and Kobe's scoring, I think more would look at Lobe's struggles in the big moments (40%fg for his career in finals, 39%of in game 7's with only 21 ppg, 25%fg in the only finals game 7 he played).

Given that Lebron is indisputably a better playmaker, defensive player, rebounder, shot blocker, and floor general (you could conflate that with being a playmaker), the only advantage Kobe would have is in scoring. But he doesnt have one. This would make sense if Kobe averaged a higher career ppg and we start negating fg%,but he doesn't. Lebron isnt just a more prolific scorer. He does it more efficiently.
Lebron's playmaking opens up his scoring. He's also a better shot finder than Kobe and probably anyone in history but that doesn't necessarily mean he's the better scorer. Because he's such a great shot finder he has, especially early in his career, gotten lost hunting for shots that weren't there. Kobe on the other hand never had that problem. Kobe would get a quick look of what the defensive set up was and go into head down, predictable, "I'm getting a shot up" mode. Kobe had a larger array of scoring moves so just because you knew he was putting it up and even the region on the court he was going to put it up from, didn't mean you knew how he was going to do it. Was he more effective than Lebron? Probably not. But that delusional level of confidence which can lead to bouts of chucking are useful when the best shot available isn't apparent.
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Old 06-24-2019, 01:40 PM   #37
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

Kobe making Shaq leave and still winning is greater than any of Lebron’s finals wins. Winning on stacked teams via collusion doesn’t impress. Kobe so good they wouldn’t let cp3 play with him. They let anyone who is willing play with bron.
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Old 06-25-2019, 12:33 AM   #38
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

now we now why kobe fans troll a lot. i would too
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Old 06-25-2019, 11:39 AM   #39
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by SpaceJammeR
now we now why kobe fans troll a lot. i would too

Its hillarious watching them squirm as they try to include their idol - by consensus, ranked around 12-15th all time, in the GOAt debate.

Putting him in the same sentence as a Lebron, Kareem, Jordan, Magic,or Shaq is downright risible
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:38 PM   #40
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by Mr Feeny
Its hillarious watching them squirm as they try to include their idol - by consensus, ranked around 12-15th all time, in the GOAt debate.

Putting him in the same sentence as a Lebron, Kareem, Jordan, Magic,or Shaq is downright risible


Almost as hilarious as watching insecure f*ggots like yourself still obsess over a player that's been retired for 3 years. Shows how much of a threat he actually is to you and your idol.
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:41 PM   #41
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by IllegalD
Almost as hilarious as watching insecure f*ggots like yourself still obsess over a player that's been retired for 3 years. Shows how much of a threat he actually is to you and your idol.

Sorry pal. My favourite players are firmly lodged in the top 5 all time list. Yours is 12th and falling
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:42 PM   #42
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by SpaceJammeR
but the heart test and eye test says otherwise.

F.uck the facts! What does your heart say bb?
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Old 06-25-2019, 01:42 PM   #43
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by Mr Feeny
Sorry pal. My favourite players are firmly lodged in the top 5 all time list. Yours is 12th and falling


Keep telling yourself that.

You spend more time posting about and thinking about a player that's supposedly outside of the Top 10. Doesn't make any logical/psychological sense unless he is that much of a threat to you.

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Old 06-25-2019, 01:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

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Originally Posted by IllegalD
Keep telling yourself that.

You spend more time posting about and thinking about a player that's supposedly outside of the Top 10. Doesn't make any logical/psychological sense unless he is that much of a threat to you.


Sorry mate
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Old 06-26-2019, 03:36 AM   #45
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Default Re: mj vs lebron vs Kobe debate

Meanwhile, Kobe stans trying to insert him into the discussion with the Lebrons of the world

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