MJ has a perfect playoff record

[livinglegend]

95 Magic.

[AirBonner]

He never lost as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - he only lost as a heavy underdog.

Otoh, Lebron loses as the favorite all the time: 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals... and also when it's 50/50: 2014 Finals.

Therefore, Lebron's 2/6 and his other failures are legit, while MJ has a perfect playoff record (never losing when it's 50/50 or greater)

What was his record without pippen?

[Lebron23]

[dhsilv]

3ball is like a pitbull. Absolutely relentless in going after these Bran Stans. Never giving up.

He really is good at turning MJ fans into MJ haters.

[catch24]

I don't buy for one second Chicago-Orlando in 95 wasn't at least considered 50/50. Sounds like another made up factoid by 3ball just to fellate his guy.

Whats interesting though is Jordan never losing as the overwhelming favorite. Like, he was never completely upset by an underdog a la Kobe to Detroit and LeBron to Dallas. One can definitely argue MJ won when he was supposed to.

[Smoke117]

1-9

[Trollsmasher]

Okay...so all that means he wasn't that good as an underdog.

Frontrunner.

this

MJ was good at winning with teams that would have won without him and incapable of making a team better than what it would have been without him

Zero impact player (ZIP)

[ClipperRevival]

MJ actually won 7 series in which his teams didn't have HCA. And as we all know, he never lost when he had HCA.

And even in 2 of his 6 finals, his opponents had HCA (1993 Suns and 1998 Jazz). Actually, in 1993, his teams didn't have HCA for both the ECF (Knicks) and Finals (aforementioned Suns).

[AirBonner]

this

MJ was good at winning with teams that would have won without him and incapable of making a team better than what it would have been without him

Zero impact player (ZIP)

This. Bulls won 55 games without MJ. This is why he is overhyped. MJ is simply the result of perfect circumstances (goat coach, goat teammates ect.)

[TomBrady]

The 2014 finals weren't 50/50. San Antonio was favored.

Most of the heat LeBron gets should be from the 2011 finals. Inexcusable.

[Sambacher]

The 2014 finals weren't 50/50. San Antonio was favored.

Most of the heat LeBron gets should be from the 2011 finals. Inexcusable.

If talking about playoffs in general I would say 2010 was pretty inexcusable as well. I'm a Celtics fan but I did not expect us to go through the Cavs as easily as we did. After the series LeBron fans are super quick to say "well look at his team! he had no one!" but going into the series the vast majority were picking the Cavs to win. LeBron looked like he gave up. Give the Celtics credit though because they played great, Rondo was out of his mind that series. When it comes down to it though LeBron was unable to step up as the favorite in the series.

[TomBrady]

I think that 2011 trumps because of where his collapse happened. Directly cost his team a championship.

[Sambacher]

I think that 2011 trumps because of where his collapse happened. Directly cost his team a championship.

Agreed 100%. 2011 is by far Bron's biggest shortcoming and probably most embarrassing year as a player... I was just stating that he has had other times of falling short as a heavy favorite.

[Nash]

How about finals 2012 when Miami had Bosh injured and Wade on one bum knee?

[Sambacher]

How about finals 2012 when Miami had Bosh injured and Wade on one bum knee?

Mf that doesn't change that he has had major shortcomings... No one said he hasn't had great performances as well. Argument invalid.