Better Player in his PRIME: LeBron James or Larry Bird? (Video)

[Round Mound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHvwJla9BbI

Discuss.

[tpols]

Bird.. 100/100.

Didnt even have to see him play.

[RedBlackAttack]

For me, Bird's peak is only behind Jordan for the guys I've actually watched live. It didn't last as long as it probably should have, but man... he was amazing to watch.

In fact, I might say that, at his peak, he was the greatest all-around offensive player I have ever seen (again, in my lifetime). The reason I rank Jordan in front of him is the gap defensively.

He was such a unique blend of offensive talents, I think it is hard for people who didn't live through his best play to understand how unstoppable he was.

You're talking about a 6-foot-9, strong player who could playmake like an elite point guard, was one of the greatest shooters of all-time, absolutely deadly on the low block when he took it there, unstoppable in transition with his vision/balance/skillset/athleticism (yes, he was a great athlete), could bang down low for tough rebounds, was a great leader who always turned it up when the pressure was on...

You could put that guy in any offense on any team and he will fit in seamlessly and differently depending upon what that team needed. There aren't too many guys who were capable of being elite in so many different ways, offensively. You need a low post scorer, he could bring it. You need a guy to run pick-and-rolls/pops, he could do it. You need floor spacing, he brings it. You need a ball-handler/playmaker, he could do it.

There is literally nothing on the offensive end that he didn't do well.

And, while he was no Dennis Rodman on the defensive end, he also wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. He could hold his own on that side of the ball and was actually really good at disrupting passing lanes and defensive rebounding, both of which would immediately lead to a kickstarted offense heading the other direction because of his great transition game.

[kennethgriffin]

lol she jinxed the f*ck out of lebron... so did bill simmons

all this larry bird talk is ruining the moment


kobes at 5 titles and even he's still battling bird on the all time list.

you cant just tie a legend in rings. you gotta do allot more just to pass them cause they came first.

its amazing to me that nayones picking lebron.

yeah both kobe and lebron are better players than bird. but bird came first. he played in a tougher era. he helped grow the league.. these are tough things to overcome


honestly comparing guys in totally different eras is stupid.


all we can truly know is whos the best of their eras


60s wilt/russell
70s kareem/erving
80s bird/magic
90s jordan/hakeem
00s kobe/shaq/duncan
10s lebron/durant

argue between eras... not 2-3 eras back


totally different game, style, pace, competition, players, coaches, systems, growth, drugs, trainers, schemes, media, awards, rules... totally different game. might aswell be called NBO or the NBF or NBI.. each era should have a different class in itself


enough

[bizil]

U could go either way. But for me, I would take Bron. U are talking arguably the most versatile player of all time along with KG when u include both sides of the rock. I admit Bird is the better scorer due to scoring skillset and clutch factor. But Bron numbers wise is EVERY BIT the scorer Bird is. And while Bird is as good of a passer from a stationary position ever, Bron has the vision, handles, AND pace of an elite PG. For me, Bron can score just as good AND can fill more holes than Bird. So I will roll with Bron, but I would never argue if one said Bird.

I put Bird, Bron, and Magic in their own special class anyway. Because of their size and versatility, they can always move to a PF position when age or need dictates. In their respective eras, they were as big as many PF's in the L. It makes them unique from other perimeter immortals such as MJ, Kobe, Big O, West, Dr. J, Hondo, Baylor, Wade, etc.

[GimmeThat]

Never watched Bird Play

But I take Lebron James from looking at their stats.

And from comparing their video and playing style here's the biggest reason.

Lebron's ability to control the pace of the game is somewhat negated by Larry Legends shooting ability as well as rebounding.

But I don't think anyone expected Lebron to be this effective, especially right around the basket and his 3 point shot.

not to mention the slight defensive edge.


I do think that had Larry Bird been with the Heat, they would have needed another PF/C instead of Ray Allen in order to 3 peat.

Most likely a Center because I don't think you can get away with Bosh playing Center defensively when Bird is your 3.


Brons versatility at a slow and controlled pace is something special. I really wonder what his stats would be just even at a slightly faster tempo. Just to add on, their defensive tempo is fast, not the offense they run.

[SHAQisGOAT]

ESPN

I wrote this a while ago on another thread:

Gimme peak/prime Bird, still.

Larry Legend was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better in the post, better footwork, greater soft-touch with either hand, better passer, better rebounder and hustled more, better team and post defender (James is above in overall D though, mostly because of athleticism), above in terms of intangibles, things like clutch-play, leadership, physicality, agressiveness, mind toughness, basketball IQ, court-awareness...
Also, he could score and dominate in many different ways, no clear strategy against a guy like him, he could adjust to any offensive/defensive strategy and could mesh with any type of teammate, knew when to step down and when to step up, and never needed to overhandle the ball, didn't change (for the worse) the "game" of some of his best teammates.
Very close but Bird's the best overall player, at their best.

Y'all wanna talk about McHale or Parish? Ok. Before they even got there Bird led the Celtics from 2nd worst record (29W) to the best record (61W) in the league, with basically the same roster, as a rookie. In 1981, Cowens got traded and they got Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, and Bird led them to a title, as a sophomore; McHale was a non-factor at that point, averaged like 8/3 in the playoffs, in fact not even in 1984 did McHale averaged more than 15 in the Playoffs, and only really came into his own by 1985, then injuring himself in 1987.
When Bird was out in 1989, Celtics dropped by 15W and were swept in the 1st round, and this is with the "addition" of Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. Larry comes back as a shell in 1990 and they win 10 more.

Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he stayed in GS, DJ the same if he never joined the Celtics. Only McHale can I see being one in many situations (and Walton but he only was there as a shell for a season), if he didn't get injured too soon. People only look at names or fame and such, Bird had great teammates yea but he also played in a tremendous league and "made" teammates.

Look at "examples" like the 1984 Playoffs... With his teammates really underperforming, Larry "carried" them to the title, facing great competition, even the mighty and super-stacked showtime Lakers in the Finals. Doing things like going wild on the Lakers, killing a great Bucks team, outscoring peak Bernard King.
He led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and was 3rd in blocks and 3P% with more 3's taken (!!!)
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG

In 1986, things were clicking, everything "aligned", great teammates and whatnot, look at what happened... He did even way more than what he was supposed to, they just raped the whole league and he was playing unreal basketball, leading the way for arguably the GOAT team.

With Larry as their leader, the Celtics beat 10 50+ wins teams in 9 prime seasons (before injuries), when Lebron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years ahahah... Not to mention 60 win teams, shit he went against dynasties and some of the greatest, most stacked teams ever.

Faced competition for MVP, like Magic, Kareem, Moses, Jordan, Erving, Wilkins, King, Gervin... And played in the best, deepest era for SF's, the position he played during his best years. Lebron ain't ****ing with that.

Also, Bird didn't play in a soft-ass league with today's high level of superstar treatment and things of that nature, rules like traveling or offensive fouls don't even matter sometimes. Nowadays you can't even breathe on a player when he's shooting Larry was getting held and scratched, getting checked hard on his way to the rim, roughed up in the post, so on, and he just came back more agressive and playing better, trash-talking people, he didn't have this modern medicine and other "luxuries" and played through shit that most wouldn't even been on the bench... Lebron complains about physicality, looks at the refs everytime, gets way with tremendous star treatment and soft-calls, plus travels and offensive fouls, so on.. lmfao. Try something like the rip-through move in the 80's and refs wouldn't even look at you

Larry played in a much tougher league, faced more competition in terms of teams and stars, and he didn't join two already established superstars, one a top5 player (wanna talk about his stacked cast or something, read the above and don't go by names).

Larry Bird = GOAT forward
People who actually know their basketball and saw enough from both, will tell you the same. Put that shit to rest.

[RedBlackAttack]

U could go either way. But for me, I would take Bron. U are talking arguably the most versatile player of all time along with KG when u include both sides of the rock. I admit Bird is the better scorer due to scoring skillset and clutch factor. But Bron numbers wise is EVERY BIT the scorer Bird is. And while Bird is as good of a passer from a stationary position ever, Bron has the vision, handles, AND pace of an elite PG. For me, Bron can score just as good AND can fill more holes than Bird. So I will roll with Bron, but I would never argue if one said Bird.

I put Bird, Bron, and Magic in their own special class anyway. Because of their size and versatility, they can always move to a PF position when age of need dictates. In their respective eras, they were as big as many PF's in the L. It makes them unique from other perimeter immortals such as MJ, Kobe, Big O, West, Dr. J, Hondo, Baylor, Wade, etc.

Read my post above.

It wasn't just scoring and passing "from a stationary position." A lot of Bird's assists came from playmaking. And, the fact that he was lethal from anywhere on the floor in almost any offensive set, the defenses had to open up and this made his passing even more brutal for opponents... They could come from dribble-drives, the high post, the low post, the perimeter. And, he was so damn quick with his decision making and touch passes. Bird would often pass the ball in mid-dribble if he had the defense on its heels.



He was also known for being basically automatic in transition.




James is awesome at what he does... don't get me wrong. He's maybe the best I've ever seen at getting the ball on the wing or straight-away and driving to the basket for either a score himself or to set up a teammate. He's also one of the very best transition players I've ever seen.

But, I take pretty much the exact opposite stance to you when it comes to versatility. The reason I'd take Bird's peak, at least right now, is because he could fit seamlessly into any offense, depending on what they needed at that moment, and it didn't always involve having the ball in his hands.

You need an instant floor spacer? He could do it. You need a guy on the block who could score efficiently and set up teammates? He could do that. You need a playmaker? He could do it? You need a 25 point quarter? He was capable of it. Someone to bang downlow and get you 12-15 rebounds on a given night? He could do it. Get out and run the floor to devastate teams? Yep.

LeBron's offensive game, as great as it is, has always been much more predictable. He prefers the dribble drives from wing or the top of the key to set his game up, either as a scorer or playmaker. When he doesn't have the ball in his hands, teams can take him out of the game, especially in the playoffs when things really tighten up and slow down.


On what may have been the greatest single team I've seen in my lifetime, Bird averaged 26 points on 52% from the field, 9+ rebounds and 8+ assists, with a usage rate of 23.3% in the playoffs (1986). That is just mind blowing.

For context, LeBron has a usage rate of 31.3% so far in these playoffs.

[tpols]

wow.. just rewatched the interview. That bitch is dumb

[atljonesbro]

LeBron. Could see why 80s fans would pick Bird though, no one played defense back in the 80s so that's what they grew accustom to.

[SHAQisGOAT]

For me, Bird's peak is only behind Jordan for the guys I've actually watched live. It didn't last as long as it probably should have, but man... he was amazing to watch.

In fact, I might say that, at his peak, he was the greatest all-around offensive player I have ever seen (again, in my lifetime). The reason I rank Jordan in front of him is the gap defensively.

He was such a unique blend of offensive talents, I think it is hard for people who didn't live through his best play to understand how unstoppable he was.

You're talking about a 6-foot-9, strong player who could playmake like an elite point guard, was one of the greatest shooters of all-time, absolutely deadly on the low block when he took it there, unstoppable in transition with his vision/balance/skillset/athleticism (yes, he was a great athlete), could bang down low for tough rebounds, was a great leader who always turned it up when the pressure was on...

You could put that guy in any offense on any team and he will fit in seamlessly and differently depending upon what that team needed. There aren't too many guys who were capable of being elite in so many different ways, offensively. You need a low post scorer, he could bring it. You need a guy to run pick-and-rolls/pops, he could do it. You need floor spacing, he brings it. You need a ball-handler/playmaker, he could do it.

There is literally nothing on the offensive end that he didn't do well.

And, while he was no Dennis Rodman on the defensive end, he also wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. He could hold his own on that side of the ball and was actually really good at disrupting passing lanes and defensive rebounding, both of which would immediately lead to a kickstarted offense heading the other direction because of his great transition game.

Bird's underrated af on defense though.
Celtics improved from one of the worst to one of the best defensive teams when he (and coach Fitch) came around, with basically the same roster, as he was 1st in DWS and 6th in DRtg... He led in DWS 4 times and has the most overall in the 80s, 2nd in DRtg once and 6x in the top10, other forwards doing stuff like that were Duncan, KG, Rodman, Pippen, Hayes, and few others, so you can see the level, and Larry raised that in the PS. Was averaging 2 SPG and 1 BPG also, and plenty of times kept his matchup below his(opponent) standards.
Fact is that Bird's one of the greatest team defenders ever, his impact also came plenty from defense as his teams were always considerably better on D with him on the court, he never got lost on rotations, he knew how to draw charges, he had terrific defensive IQ and really quick hands, could use his size and had lots of strength, protected the paint, played passing lanes, good post-defender and before back issues held his own on the perimeter (even more than that in his early years), great defensive rebounder if you wanna count that too..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpEAZMT5t_U

[SHAQisGOAT]

LeBron. Could see why 80s fans would pick Bird though, no one played defense back in the 80s so that's what they grew accustom to.

DRtg's about the same though And back then team offense was just better, that makes it harder on the defense and takes you places (ask the old-ass Spurs)

[SHAQisGOAT]

Read my post above.

It wasn't just scoring and passing "from a stationary position." A lot of Bird's assists came from playmaking. And, the fact that he was lethal from anywhere on the floor in almost any offensive set, the defenses had to open up and this made his passing even more brutal for opponents... They could come from dribble-drives, the high post, the low post, the perimeter. And, he was so damn quick with his decision making and touch passes. Bird would often pass the ball in mid-dribble if he had the defense on its heels.



He was also known for being basically automatic in transition.




James is awesome at what he does... don't get me wrong. He's maybe the best I've ever seen at getting the ball on the wing or straight-away and driving to the basket for either a score himself or to set up a teammate. He's also one of the very best transition players I've ever seen.

But, I take pretty much the exact opposite stance to you when it comes to versatility. The reason I'd take Bird's peak, at least right now, is because he could fit seamlessly into any offense, depending on what they needed at that moment, and it didn't always involve having the ball in his hands.

You need an instant floor spacer? He could do it. You need a guy on the block who could score efficiently and set up teammates? He could do that. You need a playmaker? He could do it? You need a 25 point quarter? He was capable of it. Someone to bang downlow and get you 12-15 rebounds on a given night? He could do it. Get out and run the floor to devastate teams? Yep.

LeBron's offensive game, as great as it is, has always been much more predictable. He prefers the dribble drives from wing or the top of the key to set his game up, either as a scorer or playmaker. When he doesn't have the ball in his hands, teams can take him out of the game, especially in the playoffs when things really tighten up and slow down.


On what may have been the greatest single team I've seen in my lifetime, Bird averaged 26 points on 52% from the field, 9+ rebounds and 8+ assists, with a usage rate of 23.3% in the playoffs (1986). That is just mind blowing.

For context, LeBron has a usage rate of 31.3% so far in these playoffs.

[GimmeThat]

the force of Jerry West > Dwayne Wade regardless of ring count is strong here.

[MavsSuperFan]

The only thing bird has on Lebron is shooting and mental toughness.

Lebron is better in all other ways.