08 Celtics BARELY beat the 08 Cavs

[Akhenaten]

Lol LeBron ended up playing better against the 2008 Celtics than Kobe did that year. Chalk another L for OP

The thread's more about the 08 Celtics than it is Lebron, I was just using Lebron to underscore just how overrated that 08 Celtics team was. Because if he could play that poorly with a pretty avg cast and still come that close to winning that how great was that Boston team really?


Still how did BRAWN play better than Kobe, he shot 36% and turned it over 5 times a game, Kobe played poorly but BRAWN was just STINKY.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

Let's be real here - if KG never blew out his knee Kobe would only have 3 titles still

[BrownEye007]

Yeah I remember that. It was almost like that should of been the ECF that year. Boston had this new team that everyone thought would win from the start but the Cavs had made the finals the year before with LeBron carrying a lackluster roster. Now, we had made some big trades at the deadline a few months earlier. We got Ben Wallace, West, Wally Szberbiak. So, while there still wasn't a clear cut #2 option, these guys seemed better than what LeBron carried before. Wallace was still pretty good defensively, Wally was lights out from 3 and West was one of the better scoring bench guards at the time. I really thought we had a chance when it went to game 7. That was also the series where LeBron told his mom to sit her ass down.

I agree with most of what you said here but I can't recall wally ever being good on the Cavs with the exception of maybe a few games. I had time to watch almost every Cavs game back then too.

[tpols]

Lebron played that bad because of boston.. that's why they were so great. Their defense. They would do the same thing to superstars of today.



Plus Cleveland supporting cast once again wildly underrated to keep them in the series despite bron.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron played that bad because of boston.. that's why they were so great. Their defense. They would do the same thing to superstars of today.



Plus Cleveland supporting cast once again wildly underrated to keep them in the series despite bron.

True, but it kind of cuts both ways. Lebron was damn good over those last 3 games. Cavs lost 2 of them...

That 08 team was just another example of a good, but not great supporting cast. It's not a championship caliber supporting cast by pretty much any definition.

Doesn't change the fact that Lebron was abysmal the first 2 games of that series....but Lebron playing like shit early on doesn't change the fact that a team heavily relying on West, Wally, Gibson, and Joe Smith isn't a championship caliber.

[Droid101]

Let's be real here - if KG never blew out his knee Kobe would only have 3 titles still

And if LeBron wasn't the biggest choker/quitter of all time, KG and Pierce would have 0. So, you win some, you lose some.

[G0ATbe]

8-42 through games 1 and 2

his team still took the series to 7

"no help"

[ArbitraryWater]

I remember Kobe and LeBron both noting that the Boston '08 Boston defense was some of the most overpowing they had ever faced in their post game pressers after their respective teams losing the series. They both remarked just how stifling they were and how much space they took away.

This, between all the hate from the KB/Bron camps, god damn, watching those seres', those defenses from the Celtics were absolutely crushing with their schemes against the individual superstars, Bron n' Kobe.

Even in that game 7 when LeBron killed them, the defense was monstrous.

[tpols]

True, but it kind of cuts both ways. Lebron was damn good over those last 3 games. Cavs lost 2 of them...

That 08 team was just another example of a good, but not great supporting cast. It's not a championship caliber supporting cast by pretty much any definition.

Doesn't change the fact that Lebron was abysmal the first 2 games of that series....but Lebron playing like shit early on doesn't change the fact that a team heavily relying on West, Wally, Gibson, and Joe Smith isn't a championship caliber.

It wasn't championship calibre.. prolly would've flopped at some point but to keep them in games and extend series like that... you really can't ask for more help in that series


It's like what you say about rose.. terrible numbers and efficiency from the star yet his team was in every game. Cavs made the games tight like the bulls plus they even won 3 of them with bron playing that way.. while roses only managed 1 win.

[DMAVS41]

It wasn't championship calibre.. prolly would've flopped at some point but to keep them in games and extend series like that... you really can't ask for more help.


It's like what you say about rose.. terrible numbers and efficiency from the star yet his team was in every game. Cavs made the games tight plus they even won 3 of them with bron playing that way.. while roses only managed 1 win.

Sure, in that series, potentially....Lebron had enough help to win.

But it's not a championship caliber roster and absolutely nowhere near as good as the 11 Bulls supporting cast. I'm assuming you agree with this...or are you actually saying the 11 Bulls and 08 Cavs are comparable?

And Lebron's series was significantly better as well...and remember...Lebron does much more than Rose on the court. Lebron's impact isn't nearly as closely tied to scoring and scoring efficiency like Rose's is.

[Ne 1]

Let's be real here - if KG never blew out his knee Kobe would only have 3 titles still

The Lakers won both games vs Boston before KG went down in '09, so there's that. I can just as easily say the Lakers would have 3-peated and Kobe would have 6 rings if Ariza and Bynum didn't get injured.

Speculation is fun.

[ArbitraryWater]

The 2008 Cavaliers were 0-7 without LeBron... I advise you to read through LeBron's season log, in 75 games there is only ONE statistically bad game LeBron had that his team won in.

[tpols]

Sure, in that series, potentially....Lebron had enough help to win.

But it's not a championship caliber roster and absolutely nowhere near as good as the 11 Bulls supporting cast. I'm assuming you agree with this...or are you actually saying the 11 Bulls and 08 Cavs are comparable?

And Lebron's series was significantly better as well...and remember...Lebron does much more than Rose on the court. Lebron's impact isn't nearly as closely tied to scoring and scoring efficiency like Rose's is.

Bulls cast was slightly better but both in the same exact mold. Great defense, rebounding.. one star penetrating breaking the defense down so offensive rebounders could crash the glass and playing a drawn out game.

Disagree on the lebron doing everything better.. as if to make some differentiation between terrible and god awful or something..he got one more assist and 2 more boards per game. Bron wasn't an elite defender in 08 either so it's not like there was some big gap there.. both played like shit against great defenses keying in on them and had a group of hustlers to pick up slack where it was left.

[Cleverness]

Not to take anything away from the Cavs, but if we're being honest, Pierce & Allen played like complete dogshit those first 4 games as well

Pierce: 13/5/4 on 35%
Allen: 10/4/3 33%

That definitely helped level the playing field and helped somewhat offset LeBron playing horribly as well

[DMAVS41]

Bulls cast was slightly better but both in the same exact mold. Great defense, rebounding.. one star penetrating breaking the defense down so offensive rebounders could crash the glass and playing a drawn out game.

Disagree on the lebron doing everything better.. he got one more assist and 2 more boards per game. Bron wasn't an elite defender in 08 either so it's not like there was some big gap there.. both played like shit and had a group of hustlers to pick up slack where it was left.

Nah....slightly better?

The Bulls won 61 games (16 more games) and were the top ranked defense and 11th ranked offense.

Cavs won 45 games (16 less games) and were the 11th ranked defense and 20th ranked offense.

Slightly better?

Now, as for the play in the two series in question?

Lebron 27/6/8 48% TS....96 ortg....98 drtg

Rose 23/4/7 44% TS....93 ortg....107 drtg

I also never said Lebron does "everything better"...talk about a straw man. I said Lebron does more on the court and his impact isn't as closely tied to scoring as Rose's is. Which, you know, is just a fact....

Again...just no. Wrong again.