Is Kobe the GOAT?

[Budadiiii]

Nah, not even close. Not even close to being close.

[3ball]

if you have to make a thread asking the question, then he's not

[kennethgriffin]

Hell no. And he's not top 10 unless you go by "ringzzz" and "81 points!!".

because winning 5 "riingzzzz" with a 27/6/5 combined playoff average and scoring the most points ever in the post merger era is common place and overrated

right?

you do realize kobes done more than that right? hes the all time record holder for

- 1st team all nbas
- all nba teams
- 1st team all defensive selections
- consecutive allstar selections


among many other major things

[Prometheus]

- 1st team all nbas
- all nba teams
- 1st team all defensive selections
- consecutive allstar selections

These criteria are weak AF. You sound like an idiot when you use these for your arguments. Real talk.

[Chief Keef]

its obvious kobe is in the top 5 all time at worst

He's barely top 5 since the 90s.



MJ, Duncan, Shaq, and Bron over Kobe are all no brainers

[Dr Hawk]

now consider for a moment this isnt about absolute peaks


this is an all time ranking based on more than 1-2 seasons


theres absolutely no case for hakeem over kobe since kobes career even cut in half is better than olajuwons

just since shaq left kobe has

- same rings
- same mvps
- same finals mvps
- more 1st team all nbas
- more 1st team all defenses
- more starting allstar selections
- more 40/50/60/70/80 point games



so even if you take away 3 of kobes rings and nominations from 98-04 kobes still above hakeem





and thats assuming kobes peak wasnt impressive. but it was. and i can see youre just favoring bigs in a biased way like some portland franchise that goes nowhere

Hakeem through 17 regular seasons with the Rockets:

22.5/11.4/2.5/1.8/3.1 109 ORtg 98 DRtg

He elevated his game in PO's:

14 PO's with the Rockets --> 26.6/11.4/3.3/1.7/3.3 112 ORtg 101 DRtg

He was elite in offense and he is one of the greatest defensive anchors of all time. He has huge prime, huge peak, huge 2 way player and huge longevity.

He lacked better teammates, yet he managed to win 2 rings

You say "more 1st all defenses". You think Kobe has had more impact on defense than Hakeem?

[imdaman99]

No. He lost his chance at goathood in the 2008 NBA Finals. Just like Lebron did in 2011 Finals. I have him in the 5-8 range which is pretty damn great.

[DMV2]

Kobe is barely Top 10.

MJ-KAJ-WILT-RUSS-BIRD-MAGIC your Big 6
Duncan #7
Shaq #8

#9 to #11 is between Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe is barely Top 10.

MJ-KAJ-WILT-RUSS-BIRD-MAGIC your Big 6
Duncan #7
Shaq #8

#9 to #11 is between Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem.

Why exactly would LeBron not battle it out with Bird and Magic? And why do they have to be above Duncan and Shaq?

We need to be open to newer Rankings, 2015... Bird and Magic aren't a lock in the top 5 anymore with Timmy/Shaq/Bron.

[Thorpesaurous]

My favorite simple model for breaking down is Multiple Titles and Multiple MVPs (I've mentioned this before). There's not many guys who's pulled that off.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron. (I'm not sure where I stand with Mikan on this, it's just too different).

Anyway, just happens that that lines up pretty great with a top tier. Within that it ranks out in a number of ways.

After that you have another tier of guys with 1 title and multiple MVPs, or multiple titles and a single MVP. They seem to pretty comfortably make up a second tier for me. Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, and a few others.

That's just how I look at it. And how you want to split up those tiers for me is sort of preference, era specific, and a few other things.

[Prometheus]

Why exactly would LeBron not battle it out with Bird and Magic? And why do they have to be above Duncan and Shaq?

We need to be open to newer Rankings, 2015... Bird and Magic aren't a lock in the top 5 anymore with Timmy/Shaq/Bron.

There's honestly no reason for Magic and Bird to be a lock for ranking above Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, or Shaq. At all. It's a combination of nostalgia for those who were there, and impressionability to those who weren't. When you really look into how it all went down...

Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe are all in the same tier, with LeBron just a little bit of success left to get there.

[Nick Young]

if you have to make a thread asking the question, then he's not

It was a rhetorical question.

[Nick Young]

My favorite simple model for breaking down is Multiple Titles and Multiple MVPs (I've mentioned this before). There's not many guys who's pulled that off.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron. (I'm not sure where I stand with Mikan on this, it's just too different).

Anyway, just happens that that lines up pretty great with a top tier. Within that it ranks out in a number of ways.

After that you have another tier of guys with 1 title and multiple MVPs, or multiple titles and a single MVP. They seem to pretty comfortably make up a second tier for me. Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, and a few others.

That's just how I look at it. And how you want to split up those tiers for me is sort of preference, era specific, and a few other things.

Kobe deserves atleast 3-4 MVPs. It's not his fault that award is only given to the media favorite. Don't forget, throughout much of his career, the media and Kobe did not have the best relationship. They took it out on him when it came to MVP voting. Nash has 2 MVPs. Derek Rose got an MVP for putting up 20 points a game XD Those men have never even been to the NBA finals. It's a joke award that doesn't mean as much as it once did.

[ImKobe]

Unquestionably.

Magic says he's better than him
Shaq says he's better
he's the only player Jordan thinks can beat him

No matter how much you ISH trolls try to convince me otherwise, I think I'd rather listen to the all-time greats rather than your sorry asses that work in McDonalds.

[kennethgriffin]

No. He lost his chance at goathood in the 2008 NBA Finals. Just like Lebron did in 2011 Finals. I have him in the 5-8 range which is pretty damn great.

how is losing to a colluded ring chasing 4 future HOF team bad for his legacy? especially when he redeemed himself vs that same team 2 years later